Did Intel Just Save x86
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Date: 2024-09-27
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Comments and reviews: 20
denvera1g1
Gordon i dont know if it will help you in your testing, but at work for our internal validation and testing(we dont publish our reviews as they are use case speciffic) I like to use an external monitor when i'm evaluating the platform for power consumption. Yes for the laptop the battery life test it should be using the built in screen but when we want to get an idea of how much power it uses at idle while docked(95% of the time for our users) we need to isolate the screen from the equation, because for some weird reason, the majority of our users pack their laptops/tablets away instead of using it as a 3rd screen.
For most people this testing would be worthless, but if you're trying to get an idea of platform power it is a great way to normalize against screen differences like display tech using more/less power, resolution, refresh rate, etc. Which, at idle/light task screens are generally the largest power draw(higher end devices can have higher end more efficient screens).
Edit: For our testing we measure the USB-C monitor second monitor laptop as a full package, but you may want to have an HDMI monitor, and then use the same charger on all laptops to normalize for differences in charging tech. We used to do laptop testing similar to how i thought might help with your testing, but we ended up finding that some lapotps would run in an oddly high power state with our dell dock monitor or if it had a USB-C monitor with a daisy chained DP second monitor plugged into the first.
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Gordon i dont know if it will help you in your testing, but at work for our internal validation and testing(we dont publish our reviews as they are use case speciffic) I like to use an external monitor when i'm evaluating the platform for power consumption. Yes for the laptop the battery life test it should be using the built in screen but when we want to get an idea of how much power it uses at idle while docked(95% of the time for our users) we need to isolate the screen from the equation, because for some weird reason, the majority of our users pack their laptops/tablets away instead of using it as a 3rd screen.
For most people this testing would be worthless, but if you're trying to get an idea of platform power it is a great way to normalize against screen differences like display tech using more/less power, resolution, refresh rate, etc. Which, at idle/light task screens are generally the largest power draw(higher end devices can have higher end more efficient screens).
Edit: For our testing we measure the USB-C monitor second monitor laptop as a full package, but you may want to have an HDMI monitor, and then use the same charger on all laptops to normalize for differences in charging tech. We used to do laptop testing similar to how i thought might help with your testing, but we ended up finding that some lapotps would run in an oddly high power state with our dell dock monitor or if it had a USB-C monitor with a daisy chained DP second monitor plugged into the first.
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Osaka2407
Okay, to summarize:
- 1T performance kinda better than Zen 5 but not always
- nT performance much worse than Zen 5
- Longer battery life than Zen 5 in light tasks but realistically shorter under heavier loads (max power consumption is similar but Zen5 is much faster in nT so it completes the tasks faster, using less battery)
- Similar iGPU performance vs. Zen5 but generally worse driver support (still true, but it gets better and better)
Versus ARM it's much the same as Zen5 caught to ARM in many regards.
Lunar Lake seems to be the best daily driver while mobile Zen5 is more versitile in what it can do so it can safely be recommended to proffesionals like 3D CAD engineers and artists while still being really good for daily tasks.
I don't think Intel saved x86. Zen5 arguably already did this. But together with recent Xeon releases it saved itself. Also, let's be realistic. In small daily/business laptops, which are mobile first, anything else second, most people really care about 2 things. Battery life and 1T performance. Battery life is obvious and 1T performance is the most important asweb browsing, office work and light enetertainment rely solely on it. Not a lot of people need more than 4 cores, let alone 8. So it's 'good enough' in broader picture.
Given AMD still does not know how to be the winning one and is unable to meet demand,I think Intel will have really good sales. It's also nice to see them winning in at least some categories.
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Okay, to summarize:
- 1T performance kinda better than Zen 5 but not always
- nT performance much worse than Zen 5
- Longer battery life than Zen 5 in light tasks but realistically shorter under heavier loads (max power consumption is similar but Zen5 is much faster in nT so it completes the tasks faster, using less battery)
- Similar iGPU performance vs. Zen5 but generally worse driver support (still true, but it gets better and better)
Versus ARM it's much the same as Zen5 caught to ARM in many regards.
Lunar Lake seems to be the best daily driver while mobile Zen5 is more versitile in what it can do so it can safely be recommended to proffesionals like 3D CAD engineers and artists while still being really good for daily tasks.
I don't think Intel saved x86. Zen5 arguably already did this. But together with recent Xeon releases it saved itself. Also, let's be realistic. In small daily/business laptops, which are mobile first, anything else second, most people really care about 2 things. Battery life and 1T performance. Battery life is obvious and 1T performance is the most important asweb browsing, office work and light enetertainment rely solely on it. Not a lot of people need more than 4 cores, let alone 8. So it's 'good enough' in broader picture.
Given AMD still does not know how to be the winning one and is unable to meet demand,I think Intel will have really good sales. It's also nice to see them winning in at least some categories.
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steezegod2768
Gordon, I remember catching your airjet mini coverage, and now this. I wish that we could stop the world for a few moments, and I could talk with you in person, give you a hug, and say thank you for the time, and content, but beyond that, to show appreciation for you still being here, and striving to still go to work, to speak with us consumers, but right now, I just wish we could take out a literal moment to thank you, for the career, time, and just being on this earth. I try not to get to emotional, but seeing you visually today, just tears at my heart.
My grandma had lung cancer, lymp nodes removed, and shes now skinny, struggles with food/sleep, and It hurts me more then anything else in my personal life.
I, and everyone whose watched you report on tech news, is hoping to see you get better, add your weight back up, and to win this battle.
If a day comes where you don't, we hope PCWorld flys your name as high in the internet sky as possible, thank you.
My sincerest condolences, friend.
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Gordon, I remember catching your airjet mini coverage, and now this. I wish that we could stop the world for a few moments, and I could talk with you in person, give you a hug, and say thank you for the time, and content, but beyond that, to show appreciation for you still being here, and striving to still go to work, to speak with us consumers, but right now, I just wish we could take out a literal moment to thank you, for the career, time, and just being on this earth. I try not to get to emotional, but seeing you visually today, just tears at my heart.
My grandma had lung cancer, lymp nodes removed, and shes now skinny, struggles with food/sleep, and It hurts me more then anything else in my personal life.
I, and everyone whose watched you report on tech news, is hoping to see you get better, add your weight back up, and to win this battle.
If a day comes where you don't, we hope PCWorld flys your name as high in the internet sky as possible, thank you.
My sincerest condolences, friend.
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SandyWhitmore
Not sure what the actual running clock speeds are and how much difference there is in the RAM config, but assuming they are reaching the max turbo speeds (4.8GHz for both) and RAM config doesn't make too much difference...
155H, 258V, IPC change (single thread)
Cinebench: 104, 122, 17%
Geekbench: 2397, 2769, 16%
Puget Photoshop (not single thread but also not greatly helped by having massive number of threads): 6215, 6776, 9%
Overall, noticeable but not impressive for having given up SMT and integrating the RAM, both of which should be giving minor performance increases.
30% increase in battery efficiency over Meteor Lake, and even beating out SXE is pretty amazing though!
On another note, Gordon, I've been reading/watching your work since I got into this hobby 2 decades ago. I hope to continue seeing your work for the years to come as well. Words over the internet don't helpmuch fighting health problems, but as others have expressed, I wish your well
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Not sure what the actual running clock speeds are and how much difference there is in the RAM config, but assuming they are reaching the max turbo speeds (4.8GHz for both) and RAM config doesn't make too much difference...
155H, 258V, IPC change (single thread)
Cinebench: 104, 122, 17%
Geekbench: 2397, 2769, 16%
Puget Photoshop (not single thread but also not greatly helped by having massive number of threads): 6215, 6776, 9%
Overall, noticeable but not impressive for having given up SMT and integrating the RAM, both of which should be giving minor performance increases.
30% increase in battery efficiency over Meteor Lake, and even beating out SXE is pretty amazing though!
On another note, Gordon, I've been reading/watching your work since I got into this hobby 2 decades ago. I hope to continue seeing your work for the years to come as well. Words over the internet don't helpmuch fighting health problems, but as others have expressed, I wish your well
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Vegemeister1
Interesting how the X Elite seems to do well on most of the Pugetbench Photoshop General subtests except for Select Subject and Preserve Details, where it gets completely bodied. Is Photoshop native If not, maybe it's having to emulate AVX2 or something.
Procyon Office... 365... is that effectively a web browser test Is it native or emulated on Snapdragon
P.S. wait... that graph at 51:00. The X86 chips were clocking way down in the battery life test, it looks like. Is Procyon Office Battery Life a constant rate of work Or does it run unthrottled Like, if the Snapdragon did 60% more computation total, that'd be a problem. I'd hope it's fixed-rate if they're calling it a battery life test and charging money for it, but the documentation on the website isn't clear.
Thank you very much for running all of these and publishing them.
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Interesting how the X Elite seems to do well on most of the Pugetbench Photoshop General subtests except for Select Subject and Preserve Details, where it gets completely bodied. Is Photoshop native If not, maybe it's having to emulate AVX2 or something.
Procyon Office... 365... is that effectively a web browser test Is it native or emulated on Snapdragon
P.S. wait... that graph at 51:00. The X86 chips were clocking way down in the battery life test, it looks like. Is Procyon Office Battery Life a constant rate of work Or does it run unthrottled Like, if the Snapdragon did 60% more computation total, that'd be a problem. I'd hope it's fixed-rate if they're calling it a battery life test and charging money for it, but the documentation on the website isn't clear.
Thank you very much for running all of these and publishing them.
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pweddy1
Just due to compatibility issues windows on arm devices must operate in the budget market. You cannot sell a premium product that doesn’t run everything and has a performance penalty and most other apps.
If they were selling snapdragon laptops for $800 or less, they’d be a deal. Outfit them with a 1080P display to save cost and market them to college students who just need something to run Microsoft office for class. Because first party Microsoft apps are fine. But when you go north of $1200, you don’t want to deal with half of your apps not running. I mean to make them work in the premium sector Microsoft has to have 100% buy in, which it doesn’t feel like they do right now.
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Just due to compatibility issues windows on arm devices must operate in the budget market. You cannot sell a premium product that doesn’t run everything and has a performance penalty and most other apps.
If they were selling snapdragon laptops for $800 or less, they’d be a deal. Outfit them with a 1080P display to save cost and market them to college students who just need something to run Microsoft office for class. Because first party Microsoft apps are fine. But when you go north of $1200, you don’t want to deal with half of your apps not running. I mean to make them work in the premium sector Microsoft has to have 100% buy in, which it doesn’t feel like they do right now.
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BarbaryStudio
First of all, I ask God Almighty to grant you a speedy recovery and good health. You are very important to the community.
I'm rocking the Razer Blade 14 early 2024 with AMD Ryzen 9 and RTX 4070 8GB and 96GB RAM as a daily driver. I love it.
I'm coming from the Apple MacBook Pro 2015 mid 2015, the last flagship model with dual graphics and an Intel processor with led logo on the back.
I love the Razer Blade because it gives me the feeling of a premium Apple MacBook, only disappointingly the Razer logo is not LED anymore. They followed Apple's way of destroying features.
I hope Apple brings back the LED logo on the back in the next MacBook Pro release with the M4 Max chip
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First of all, I ask God Almighty to grant you a speedy recovery and good health. You are very important to the community.
I'm rocking the Razer Blade 14 early 2024 with AMD Ryzen 9 and RTX 4070 8GB and 96GB RAM as a daily driver. I love it.
I'm coming from the Apple MacBook Pro 2015 mid 2015, the last flagship model with dual graphics and an Intel processor with led logo on the back.
I love the Razer Blade because it gives me the feeling of a premium Apple MacBook, only disappointingly the Razer logo is not LED anymore. They followed Apple's way of destroying features.
I hope Apple brings back the LED logo on the back in the next MacBook Pro release with the M4 Max chip
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blackIce504
lol more like death, the whole point of PC standard is to be able to upgrade, i think they should have gone a different route like making 32 or 16 onboard but have it as some sort of hybrid cache where its like ram but like cache and have a memory controller to allow for upgrades, that would have been a far better solution, for the people that don't upgrade or don't like brute force or speed they can buy shitty disposable stuff like apple. I don't know you that well Gordon but i hope you get better soon and you be in my prayers.
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lol more like death, the whole point of PC standard is to be able to upgrade, i think they should have gone a different route like making 32 or 16 onboard but have it as some sort of hybrid cache where its like ram but like cache and have a memory controller to allow for upgrades, that would have been a far better solution, for the people that don't upgrade or don't like brute force or speed they can buy shitty disposable stuff like apple. I don't know you that well Gordon but i hope you get better soon and you be in my prayers.
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pcworld
It is not ARM or x86. It is TSMC.
It is not Apple that dominates. It is not Qualcomm that challenges x86 with snapdragon Elite.
It is not AMD that challenges Qualcomm. And it is not Intel that saves x86.
All of these things are TSMC achievements.
If it were not for TSMC Apple would never build its silicon
AMD would never challenge Intel.
Qualcomm would never challenge x86
and Intel would never make a huge jump saving x86 and challenging ARM
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It is not ARM or x86. It is TSMC.
It is not Apple that dominates. It is not Qualcomm that challenges x86 with snapdragon Elite.
It is not AMD that challenges Qualcomm. And it is not Intel that saves x86.
All of these things are TSMC achievements.
If it were not for TSMC Apple would never build its silicon
AMD would never challenge Intel.
Qualcomm would never challenge x86
and Intel would never make a huge jump saving x86 and challenging ARM
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maxwellsmart3156
Did Intel Just Save x86 What from AMD already saving it At this point, especially with testing laptops and running through a bunch of synthetics, just like statistics you may craft your own conclusions. At the prices I don't see the need for a lower performing but questionably better battery life laptop. I am impressed with the packaging of the processor but was expecting something a little better when using TSMC 3nm.
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Did Intel Just Save x86 What from AMD already saving it At this point, especially with testing laptops and running through a bunch of synthetics, just like statistics you may craft your own conclusions. At the prices I don't see the need for a lower performing but questionably better battery life laptop. I am impressed with the packaging of the processor but was expecting something a little better when using TSMC 3nm.
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parm2-x7h
so lunarlake is mixed results , it got better single thread but worst multithread than last gen , i 'm not sure if i would run out to get lunarlake laptop ,
snapdragon x and Amd AI 300 seems performs better overall , Amd wins in lots of benchmarks and in gpu its superior , then again it depends which workloads you are targeting , intel needs something much better than lunarlake at this time to win people over .
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so lunarlake is mixed results , it got better single thread but worst multithread than last gen , i 'm not sure if i would run out to get lunarlake laptop ,
snapdragon x and Amd AI 300 seems performs better overall , Amd wins in lots of benchmarks and in gpu its superior , then again it depends which workloads you are targeting , intel needs something much better than lunarlake at this time to win people over .
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pweddy1
I feel like the more relevant test for Macs will be when they drop the M4 MacBooks.
And it might not hurt to throw in a base model MacBook Pro, because these are flagship CPU’s for the X 86, but the M3 is an entry level CPU.
In the end, x86 is driven by software compatibility more than anything else. Even if a MacBook Pro out performs it, you can’t run a lot the same software.
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I feel like the more relevant test for Macs will be when they drop the M4 MacBooks.
And it might not hurt to throw in a base model MacBook Pro, because these are flagship CPU’s for the X 86, but the M3 is an entry level CPU.
In the end, x86 is driven by software compatibility more than anything else. Even if a MacBook Pro out performs it, you can’t run a lot the same software.
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jonathanwright1761
Long time listener, first time caller. We must address the elephant in the room. On the last episode of PC World, Will Smith said and I quote I wanna put a C.P.U in your butt and nobody said anything afterwards. Everyone just moved on with the conversation as if it didn't happen. I thought it was extremely funny and definitely made my morning.
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Long time listener, first time caller. We must address the elephant in the room. On the last episode of PC World, Will Smith said and I quote I wanna put a C.P.U in your butt and nobody said anything afterwards. Everyone just moved on with the conversation as if it didn't happen. I thought it was extremely funny and definitely made my morning.
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HP4L16
Good job Gordon, the best review I have seen so far today, overall Strix seems to be the chip to beat, it's just good at everything. It will be interesting to see battery life tests of the Zenbook S14 with the 288V and the S16 with the HX 370 with the rest of the tested laptops in an offscreen test with an external monitor.
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Good job Gordon, the best review I have seen so far today, overall Strix seems to be the chip to beat, it's just good at everything. It will be interesting to see battery life tests of the Zenbook S14 with the 288V and the S16 with the HX 370 with the rest of the tested laptops in an offscreen test with an external monitor.
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pweddy1
I almost like mini computer reviews for laptop parts, better than laptop reviews.
Because they generally tend to be more flexible with their cooling, and bio settings. HP and Dell are going to thermally contain you to whatever their chassis can handle but many computers tend to have a lot more headroom.
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I almost like mini computer reviews for laptop parts, better than laptop reviews.
Because they generally tend to be more flexible with their cooling, and bio settings. HP and Dell are going to thermally contain you to whatever their chassis can handle but many computers tend to have a lot more headroom.
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FlorinArjocu
This is the first test I see with the three platforms on the exact same chassy and internal configuration. What a treat! Good job Intel! I wonder if Arrow Lake will maintain mostly the same level of efficiency, we need multicore performance and efficiency, too.
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This is the first test I see with the three platforms on the exact same chassy and internal configuration. What a treat! Good job Intel! I wonder if Arrow Lake will maintain mostly the same level of efficiency, we need multicore performance and efficiency, too.
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soapa4279
It seriously takes a special kind of person to go through what he's going through, but still never fail to come through with his passion for computer and hardware and sharing it with all of us. So inspirational. Keep it going Gordon, wishing you the best!
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It seriously takes a special kind of person to go through what he's going through, but still never fail to come through with his passion for computer and hardware and sharing it with all of us. So inspirational. Keep it going Gordon, wishing you the best!
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AndrewRoberts11
Stick a Meteorlake / Lunarlake on your Intel cpu labels, and while you're at it the number of cores and frequency, and ideally use different colors to differentiate the Intel architectures you're talking about, product numbers are rather obscure.
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Stick a Meteorlake / Lunarlake on your Intel cpu labels, and while you're at it the number of cores and frequency, and ideally use different colors to differentiate the Intel architectures you're talking about, product numbers are rather obscure.
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tqrules01
Not really, AMD already launched an incredible CPU on mobile awhile back. The new HX line offer crazy risc like power saving features. You seemingly left out the new HX chips on some slides like the one at 47:11 which makes this seem disingenuous.
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Not really, AMD already launched an incredible CPU on mobile awhile back. The new HX line offer crazy risc like power saving features. You seemingly left out the new HX chips on some slides like the one at 47:11 which makes this seem disingenuous.
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HypnoticSuggestion
Thanks for the in depth review Gordon. These are very interesting. I'm not quite sure what I would pick if I needed efficiency, and didn't care about gaming or production stuff. But I think Lunar Lake is doing exactly what Intel wanted.
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Thanks for the in depth review Gordon. These are very interesting. I'm not quite sure what I would pick if I needed efficiency, and didn't care about gaming or production stuff. But I think Lunar Lake is doing exactly what Intel wanted.
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