How New York Became America’s Fastest Shrinking State
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Date: 2024-09-27
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Comments and reviews: 20
foremanhaste5464
24: 58 You barely touch on the reason for the oncoming next wave of population loss, bureaucracy and red tape. NYC has always been a hot bed of corruption and 'Good Ole 'Boy' politics (you have to be friends with the right people to get anything permitted or approved) This seems to be hitting another stride in that bureaucracy has become unwilling to be friendly to businesses and has become outwardly hostile to them and residences at large. You can look into a case where a NYC man has been fined something like $100k because he didn't check the right box in some byzantine paperwork to build a pigeon coupe and the permitting department has decided to fine him into oblivion. People that don't own property being levied property taxes. On and on. The next wave of people is leaving, because the city seems to not want them there.
People's jobs generally put them into one of a few buckets: the wealthy, industry/transport, local services, or corporate service. Local services are things that can't be done elsewhere and imported; think restaurant staff, police/fire, sanitation, and to-consumer shops. Industrial workers are what historically built NYC's population. NYC's location made it financially prudent to nearly required to be located in the NYC area because of NYC's tremendous maritime shipping sector. In the last 70 years American industry has been slowly outsourced, and this is a rapidly shrinking area. Corporate services (banks, investing, insurance, corporate HQs, technology, ect) have filled the hole where industry shrank. While these operations once had a need to be in the 'frontlines' of global interaction, they have since realized that internet has made location unimportant, and they have begun to devest from NYC high prices to lower cost of living places their employees would rather live. This all together means that NYC is becoming the high-end services theme park that the wealthy want to live in to have access to all the high-end services (nice restaurants, designer retail, ect) and that the only other people that have a reason to be there are people that think they can afford that kind of lifestyle and can't; Aswell as the people that work at the high-end services. This is where the wealth gap is coming from as the service sector people are normally paid poorly while the wealthy I am referring to live off the interest of inherited wealth or at most have comfortable 'nepo-jobs. ' NYC will slow turn into a theme park for rich and powerful who step on the disneyland-esk staff.
Because the area is an island and expansion is curtailed the only place that the city can expand is up, which is super expensive comparatively. Much like Hawai'i, NYC will simply get more expensive until the remaining residence reflect the cost of living rather than the cost of living reflecting the residence's income. This is what max capacity capitalism does when land expansion is prohibited.
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24: 58 You barely touch on the reason for the oncoming next wave of population loss, bureaucracy and red tape. NYC has always been a hot bed of corruption and 'Good Ole 'Boy' politics (you have to be friends with the right people to get anything permitted or approved) This seems to be hitting another stride in that bureaucracy has become unwilling to be friendly to businesses and has become outwardly hostile to them and residences at large. You can look into a case where a NYC man has been fined something like $100k because he didn't check the right box in some byzantine paperwork to build a pigeon coupe and the permitting department has decided to fine him into oblivion. People that don't own property being levied property taxes. On and on. The next wave of people is leaving, because the city seems to not want them there.
People's jobs generally put them into one of a few buckets: the wealthy, industry/transport, local services, or corporate service. Local services are things that can't be done elsewhere and imported; think restaurant staff, police/fire, sanitation, and to-consumer shops. Industrial workers are what historically built NYC's population. NYC's location made it financially prudent to nearly required to be located in the NYC area because of NYC's tremendous maritime shipping sector. In the last 70 years American industry has been slowly outsourced, and this is a rapidly shrinking area. Corporate services (banks, investing, insurance, corporate HQs, technology, ect) have filled the hole where industry shrank. While these operations once had a need to be in the 'frontlines' of global interaction, they have since realized that internet has made location unimportant, and they have begun to devest from NYC high prices to lower cost of living places their employees would rather live. This all together means that NYC is becoming the high-end services theme park that the wealthy want to live in to have access to all the high-end services (nice restaurants, designer retail, ect) and that the only other people that have a reason to be there are people that think they can afford that kind of lifestyle and can't; Aswell as the people that work at the high-end services. This is where the wealth gap is coming from as the service sector people are normally paid poorly while the wealthy I am referring to live off the interest of inherited wealth or at most have comfortable 'nepo-jobs. ' NYC will slow turn into a theme park for rich and powerful who step on the disneyland-esk staff.
Because the area is an island and expansion is curtailed the only place that the city can expand is up, which is super expensive comparatively. Much like Hawai'i, NYC will simply get more expensive until the remaining residence reflect the cost of living rather than the cost of living reflecting the residence's income. This is what max capacity capitalism does when land expansion is prohibited.
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iamagi
You wanna know where Upstate New York starts Lemme tell ya, there’s been debates for decades, but I’ll settle this once and for all.
Now listen, anything above The Bronxthat’s Upstate, alright That’s the city line. You’re leavin’ the five boroughs, you’re Upstate. I don’t care what some guy from Westchester says or anyone from Albany tries to tell you. The moment you’re not payin’ city taxes, congratulations, you’re Upstate!
People love to get all fancy with it, talkin’ about Oh, but there’s the Hudson Valley, or What about the Catskills Forget it! If it ain't got that city grime, and you're seein’ more trees than concrete, you're in Upstate. Look, even Westchester might as well be Canada to me. If you’re drinkin’ milk from a cow instead of a bodega, you're Upstate. Simple.
Sure, folks from Albany or Buffalo wanna act like they’re special. But face it: to anyone from the city, anywhere north of The Bronx is practically the wilderness. You’re huntin’ deer, wearin' flannel, and talkin' about your yard. That ain't New York City, so it’s Upstate. End of story. Forget about it!
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You wanna know where Upstate New York starts Lemme tell ya, there’s been debates for decades, but I’ll settle this once and for all.
Now listen, anything above The Bronxthat’s Upstate, alright That’s the city line. You’re leavin’ the five boroughs, you’re Upstate. I don’t care what some guy from Westchester says or anyone from Albany tries to tell you. The moment you’re not payin’ city taxes, congratulations, you’re Upstate!
People love to get all fancy with it, talkin’ about Oh, but there’s the Hudson Valley, or What about the Catskills Forget it! If it ain't got that city grime, and you're seein’ more trees than concrete, you're in Upstate. Look, even Westchester might as well be Canada to me. If you’re drinkin’ milk from a cow instead of a bodega, you're Upstate. Simple.
Sure, folks from Albany or Buffalo wanna act like they’re special. But face it: to anyone from the city, anywhere north of The Bronx is practically the wilderness. You’re huntin’ deer, wearin' flannel, and talkin' about your yard. That ain't New York City, so it’s Upstate. End of story. Forget about it!
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InvestBetter.
I was born and raised in The Big Apple, and have lived in Texas and Florida for years, since 9/11.
New York, culturally, has never recovered from 9/11. The Plandemic was another once-in-a-generation attack on New York City, as it's leadership did everything it could to make a bad situation worse.
Add in skyrocketing inflation, and cost of living, illegal immigration, increasing crime, and people working from home, and there are no good reasons to live in NYC anymore, unless you love stress, and hate money
I left just before 9/11 because I'm a smart guy. I saw this downturn coming, and quickly found greener pastures. Great decision, to leave.
I just miss the good ole days, when it was the greatest city in the world.
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I was born and raised in The Big Apple, and have lived in Texas and Florida for years, since 9/11.
New York, culturally, has never recovered from 9/11. The Plandemic was another once-in-a-generation attack on New York City, as it's leadership did everything it could to make a bad situation worse.
Add in skyrocketing inflation, and cost of living, illegal immigration, increasing crime, and people working from home, and there are no good reasons to live in NYC anymore, unless you love stress, and hate money
I left just before 9/11 because I'm a smart guy. I saw this downturn coming, and quickly found greener pastures. Great decision, to leave.
I just miss the good ole days, when it was the greatest city in the world.
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yeisonmars6184
Now, count how many are filling up that void
The Subways are overwhelmingly crowded and the traffic is insane!
6% leave and 9% make an entry!
I am seeing people in my neighborhood, that I have never seeing before.
Houses are listed for sale and months later, are sold!
If things in NYC are so bad; why are people from the south and even far away as Washington States are moving in
Why the Asylum seekers are choosing NYC Why are so many suburbians young fox moving to the five borough
Why are the Ashkenazi Safardis jews expanding all over the 5 boroughs if NYC is soo bad
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Now, count how many are filling up that void
The Subways are overwhelmingly crowded and the traffic is insane!
6% leave and 9% make an entry!
I am seeing people in my neighborhood, that I have never seeing before.
Houses are listed for sale and months later, are sold!
If things in NYC are so bad; why are people from the south and even far away as Washington States are moving in
Why the Asylum seekers are choosing NYC Why are so many suburbians young fox moving to the five borough
Why are the Ashkenazi Safardis jews expanding all over the 5 boroughs if NYC is soo bad
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jeffkadlec8264
I left NY two years ago, HAPPILY moved to Alabama, and LOVE IT!
Too cold. Too expensive. Too much government. The governor outright said that anyone who doesn't agree with her should leave. Crime is increasing. Too much traffic.
In many municipalities, you have to hire a company to handle the regulations for ANY home improvement. Yes, you pay someone to deal with the government red tape in order to pay someone to improve your home. That's insane.
Bad government policies lead to higher crime. Incredible corruption.
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I left NY two years ago, HAPPILY moved to Alabama, and LOVE IT!
Too cold. Too expensive. Too much government. The governor outright said that anyone who doesn't agree with her should leave. Crime is increasing. Too much traffic.
In many municipalities, you have to hire a company to handle the regulations for ANY home improvement. Yes, you pay someone to deal with the government red tape in order to pay someone to improve your home. That's insane.
Bad government policies lead to higher crime. Incredible corruption.
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reallifelore
If live close enough that you can commute into NYC for work on a daily basis, you are downstate. If you can ask someone from upstate without a hint of irony how far on the other side of the river they live, you are from downstate. If you look at a cow and genuinely think you are looking at a dog, you are from downstate. If you find yourself somewhere and don’t understand why you can’t tune to your usual radio stations, you are from downstate. If you find all of these people adorably amusing, you are from upstate.
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If live close enough that you can commute into NYC for work on a daily basis, you are downstate. If you can ask someone from upstate without a hint of irony how far on the other side of the river they live, you are from downstate. If you look at a cow and genuinely think you are looking at a dog, you are from downstate. If you find yourself somewhere and don’t understand why you can’t tune to your usual radio stations, you are from downstate. If you find all of these people adorably amusing, you are from upstate.
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Owlettehoo
Can confirm, I've lived in North Carolina my entire 30 years of life and ever since I was a kid, we would joke about how many New Yorkers were moving here. Now it's not just New Yorkers. Just this year alone, I've seen a very sharp uptick in California, Texas, Arizona, and even more New York plates on cars around here. I'm concerned that so many people from wealthier areas coming here is going to raise cost of living here while wages for the people that have always been here are staying the same.
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Can confirm, I've lived in North Carolina my entire 30 years of life and ever since I was a kid, we would joke about how many New Yorkers were moving here. Now it's not just New Yorkers. Just this year alone, I've seen a very sharp uptick in California, Texas, Arizona, and even more New York plates on cars around here. I'm concerned that so many people from wealthier areas coming here is going to raise cost of living here while wages for the people that have always been here are staying the same.
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FrankiePhoenix
As a lifelong New Yorker who grew up both upstate and in NYC, I feel that the property is so overpriced that the only solution to fix the issue is the mass exodus. Unfortunately, with the goal of infinite growth, our government has set it up so we have constant immigration and stimulus from taxes to fill the void. It's working for now, but the one thing they don't realize is that they have to keep it up until the rest of the country becomes just as expensive, which hopefully never happens.
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As a lifelong New Yorker who grew up both upstate and in NYC, I feel that the property is so overpriced that the only solution to fix the issue is the mass exodus. Unfortunately, with the goal of infinite growth, our government has set it up so we have constant immigration and stimulus from taxes to fill the void. It's working for now, but the one thing they don't realize is that they have to keep it up until the rest of the country becomes just as expensive, which hopefully never happens.
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kahleeb624
Wow its almost like yhe electoral college is ONLY a way for the 5% of White rural america has MORE say over politics than the MAJOR HIGHEST POPULATION cities! Wow, how crazy. so freaking stoopid. please make this make sense. you would never ask a group of friends where to go, qhere 5 say left and one says right, but then right wins because the one friend has wayyy too much control. So why the hell do we do the same with politics! You go by MAJORITY, not the loud minority!
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Wow its almost like yhe electoral college is ONLY a way for the 5% of White rural america has MORE say over politics than the MAJOR HIGHEST POPULATION cities! Wow, how crazy. so freaking stoopid. please make this make sense. you would never ask a group of friends where to go, qhere 5 say left and one says right, but then right wins because the one friend has wayyy too much control. So why the hell do we do the same with politics! You go by MAJORITY, not the loud minority!
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Proton_Decay
we are the freest state in the union - governor of the state with the most burdensome regulations in every area of life, the highest taxes, and the highest cost of everything.
It was never about pandemic restrictions. It was about not being allowed to enjoy constitutionally protected activities I enjoy, and it being one of two states in the union that would actually imprison me for any missteps with compliance.
NYC has been resting on it's laurels far too long.
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we are the freest state in the union - governor of the state with the most burdensome regulations in every area of life, the highest taxes, and the highest cost of everything.
It was never about pandemic restrictions. It was about not being allowed to enjoy constitutionally protected activities I enjoy, and it being one of two states in the union that would actually imprison me for any missteps with compliance.
NYC has been resting on it's laurels far too long.
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arafat464
Lmao, what is this Willy Wonka video Upstate NY is not in decline because the Erie Canal isn't used for commercial shipping anymore. The Erie Canal hasn't been used for shipping seriously for over 100 years! You are mixing up dates and timelines. Upstate NYs population is in decline because of high taxes and poor governance. Like, what are our taxes even doing and why were we paying so much What did we get out of the high tax rate That's why I moved to NC.
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Lmao, what is this Willy Wonka video Upstate NY is not in decline because the Erie Canal isn't used for commercial shipping anymore. The Erie Canal hasn't been used for shipping seriously for over 100 years! You are mixing up dates and timelines. Upstate NYs population is in decline because of high taxes and poor governance. Like, what are our taxes even doing and why were we paying so much What did we get out of the high tax rate That's why I moved to NC.
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mvl9591
I pay almost a thousand a month property taxes for a house I’ve owned for twelve years. And the federal tax deduction is meaningless with the large standard deduction. And I’m one of the lucky homeowners. Coworker has a tenant, the town has started an annual inspection and inspection fee! And anything they find needs to be fixed in a short time! Tenant damaged 2 windows with air conditioners. Had to get a contractor in to replace both of them.
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I pay almost a thousand a month property taxes for a house I’ve owned for twelve years. And the federal tax deduction is meaningless with the large standard deduction. And I’m one of the lucky homeowners. Coworker has a tenant, the town has started an annual inspection and inspection fee! And anything they find needs to be fixed in a short time! Tenant damaged 2 windows with air conditioners. Had to get a contractor in to replace both of them.
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EclipseOfTsuki93
The rent is too damn high guy had a point (although not about the other stuff he said)
Idk why anyone would wanna live in New York, cause if you’re not a making $200k minimum (the living wage in New York City for 1 adult working full-time with no dependents is $33 an hour) you can’t afford anything more than a tiny, cramped and damp apartment that comes with rats and mold. That’s why New York City is shrinking
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The rent is too damn high guy had a point (although not about the other stuff he said)
Idk why anyone would wanna live in New York, cause if you’re not a making $200k minimum (the living wage in New York City for 1 adult working full-time with no dependents is $33 an hour) you can’t afford anything more than a tiny, cramped and damp apartment that comes with rats and mold. That’s why New York City is shrinking
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SuperJude
I left NY State because there is almost 0 opportunity in Upstate NY. The State was left to die a long time ago. It used to be a mostly agriculture based economy but factory farming put them all out of business besides the lucky few. I was so tired of lack of jobs or opportunity. 0 Industry to speak or besides tourism. All our Upstate cities are decaying. My entire family left Upstate for areas with better job opportunities.
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I left NY State because there is almost 0 opportunity in Upstate NY. The State was left to die a long time ago. It used to be a mostly agriculture based economy but factory farming put them all out of business besides the lucky few. I was so tired of lack of jobs or opportunity. 0 Industry to speak or besides tourism. All our Upstate cities are decaying. My entire family left Upstate for areas with better job opportunities.
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WTFisDrifting
The real reason it’s called the Empire State isn’t just some guy in 1790 said it was the pathway to empire.
The very fact anyone associated nyc with empire is because they reflect all empire capitals.
They extract wealth and resources of all those around them to prop themselves up wealthier.
Multiculturalism is just something they used to gain a labor force. It wasn’t a progressive movement.
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The real reason it’s called the Empire State isn’t just some guy in 1790 said it was the pathway to empire.
The very fact anyone associated nyc with empire is because they reflect all empire capitals.
They extract wealth and resources of all those around them to prop themselves up wealthier.
Multiculturalism is just something they used to gain a labor force. It wasn’t a progressive movement.
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stevelucky7579
Criminals get away with theft or get a slap on the wrist; good Samaritans go to trial despite trying to protect people; prices keep increasing to levels difficult for the average person (let alone family) to afford; people who broke into this country get put in hotels on the taxpayers dime meanwhile the city is known for having a bunch of American homeless; can’t imagine why they would want to leave NYC.
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Criminals get away with theft or get a slap on the wrist; good Samaritans go to trial despite trying to protect people; prices keep increasing to levels difficult for the average person (let alone family) to afford; people who broke into this country get put in hotels on the taxpayers dime meanwhile the city is known for having a bunch of American homeless; can’t imagine why they would want to leave NYC.
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Nobleman5704
As an upstate Nee Yorker, I can tell you exactly why the population has been shrinking. Everyone who lives here has heard it from every generation above them since the day they were born - unfriendly business environment. Taxes and government fees are out of control. Forget about NYC, do a show that focuses on the thousands of factories that have closed up and left NY State because of the policies there.
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As an upstate Nee Yorker, I can tell you exactly why the population has been shrinking. Everyone who lives here has heard it from every generation above them since the day they were born - unfriendly business environment. Taxes and government fees are out of control. Forget about NYC, do a show that focuses on the thousands of factories that have closed up and left NY State because of the policies there.
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swagglesworth33
new yorkers refer to the regions of the state quite differently! we would generally call the area south of lake ontario and west of the hudson midstate, the areas north and east of that upstate, all boroughs and a small part north of NYC usually just as the city or by its name, and long island by its name or just as the island
anyone not from long island feel free to correct me or elaborate
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new yorkers refer to the regions of the state quite differently! we would generally call the area south of lake ontario and west of the hudson midstate, the areas north and east of that upstate, all boroughs and a small part north of NYC usually just as the city or by its name, and long island by its name or just as the island
anyone not from long island feel free to correct me or elaborate
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bruno3
It's extremely disingenuous to speak of population shrinking when things are basically going back to normal after the absurd spike during the pandemic. New York reached a saturation point years ago, but the pandemic brought in 600, 000 people in 2020 alone. People who would obviously struggle to find a place. Overpopulated areas can only expand their population up to a point.
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It's extremely disingenuous to speak of population shrinking when things are basically going back to normal after the absurd spike during the pandemic. New York reached a saturation point years ago, but the pandemic brought in 600, 000 people in 2020 alone. People who would obviously struggle to find a place. Overpopulated areas can only expand their population up to a point.
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rcchin7897
Pro-tenant laws and other regulations resulted in mom and pop landlords leaving the market, resulting in only corporations willing to rent. While mom and pop landlords are more interested in preserving property for their children, so care more about a good stable tenant, corporations need their short-term ROI to look good, so raise rents as high as the market will bear.
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Pro-tenant laws and other regulations resulted in mom and pop landlords leaving the market, resulting in only corporations willing to rent. While mom and pop landlords are more interested in preserving property for their children, so care more about a good stable tenant, corporations need their short-term ROI to look good, so raise rents as high as the market will bear.
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