RX 590 review, RTX on in Battlefield 5, 2080 Ti failures, Q&A - The Full Nerd Ep. 74
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Date: 2022-03-15
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Comments and reviews: 10
Crzces
AMD, the 590, and Navi. A novel.
The price of the rx590 does kinda suck for AMD. People always mess this up, but -THE MSRP OF THE 580 8GB- is $219. 99. The 480 was $229. 99, but was dropped $10 because the 1060 was still outselling it 10: 1 before mining.
Anyway, with blower/1 mid fan 580-s at $199. 99, and numerous cards with the 1255/1375 core/boost and 2000 mem (8GBs) speeds which OC to -at least- 1400 (silver chips, or about 50% to 1450, gold 1560 was the highest I-ve ever seen benchmarked; I-ve gotten one to 1506 core/2150 mem, but have another that creeks at 1400, so great luck & bad luck, but about 5% of chips will get over 1475 and 2150-2200 mem (9GBs), so the price just seems crazy (he, $30 really does make that much of a difference on midrange cards, especially w/new 1070-s at $300-$350 daily, and $250-$300 used/refurbed.
I think this price is, and I-m sorry to say it, but to increase the price of the previous Navi rumors (-1080ti-like performance for 580 prices-. Most people who have been following Navi since it was put on the Roadmap in 2016 didn-t expect a $219. 99 1080ti performer, but, speaking for myself, I expected a, wait for it, $279. 99 card that performed between the 1080 and 1080ti in most gaming scenarios, and better than the ti in compute heavy workloads. They stated Navi would not have a high end card, and before the RTX launch, price/performance points were pretty set. The midrange $200-$270 card performed like the previous sub ti high end card, moving everything 2 price points down for slightly better performance than the previous gens two cards up the line (wow that is worded horribly.
Putting the rx590 at $279. 99 will allow them to price Navi at $349. 99 or so, which will probably be $50 less than the 2060 and perform better.
The problem is, AMD needs to pull a 4000 series launch with Navi. They need to come close to 2080 performance (93% in the case of the 4000 series) for less than half the price, with a model lower in the $250 range that beats slides just under a 2070. That-s the only way they have earned market share back in the past.
Slightly less expensive -AND- slightly better at most games does not cut it. The 8GB 480 was under $150 and was slapped silly by 970-s and 3GB 1060-s for 33%+ more money. The 580 was outsold 5: 1 (better than the 10: 1 of the 480) with equal to, and usually a little better in newer games, for $40-$50 less, and until mining, the price had dropped to $179. 99 at one point (for the 8GB model.
They need to be in OEM-s first and foremost. They need to be better, and a lot less expensive to get people to switch as Nvidia fans are _Apple_ loyal (and AMD fans are as well, but seem, on average, more educated about computers in general, and regular consumers aren-t watching or reading an aggregate 100 benchmarks worth of videos/charts. They see -Powered by Nvidia- stickers on PC-s and laptops, so they naturally assume their -off the shelf- card of choice should be a $229. 95 3GB 1060 is a better value than the 8GB 580 at $219. 95, because they know the name, and it must be $10 more bc it-s better, right?
So again, the rx590 is priced too high. AMD needs to be in far more OEM-s. I also don-t understand why they don-t push for a small logo or sticker on console boxes that says -Powered by AMD- or -Featuring AMD Graphics-. Even if it-s just on the darn console box.
Once they get a 30% or so market share, they can do what they want (well they can regardless, I-m just referring to what they need to do and should do, but until them brand recognition -AND- consumers choosing them should be their main focus in the sub $1500 market.
Example: Gordon said he was stunned that the 580 was slightly faster than the 1060. He-s not exactly new to the party, and I-ve been reading his articles since they were on real life paper (I was a PC World Magazine sub for 10 years.
If you look at Steam Surveys the 480/580 account for 4% of the cards used. The 1060? 30%. That is a ridiculous disparity, and if you add all the other AMD cards listed their % jumps all the way to. 5. 5%.
Lisa Su has a boatload of work to do in the GPU department, and with Intel opening a facility in India with 1500 parallel process engineers, you-d have to think that in 2020 they will be giving OEMs some insane deals on CPU/GPU combos, which is what AMD should be doing right now.
Make a deal with Walmart and their -OP- line that has a 2600 and a 590 they can sell for $850 usd. Do the same with HP and Dell. Get a Geek Squad Exclusive with a 2700 and V56 w/16 GB pc3000, a boot ssd, 2tb hdd, 600 watt PSU on a micro ATX 450 that has 4 dimm slots for $1093. 95 (priced out w/ cheap but not -look out I may blow up- parts I-m at $935 cost w/o Windows, but Best Buy obviously pays a little less than us.
If they have any intention of keeping RTG relevant outside of the professional market, they need to commit again. Even w/ the small Steam saturation, mining made the 570 and 580 sell far better than they could have hoped. Zen has made them cult consumer rockstars. Add it all together and they literally overshot projections by nearly a billion usd (a billion more than projected q3 2017-q2 2018, so they have the capital. It really boils down to: Is Lisa Su going to hire more engineers for RTG as opposed to pulling them for complex compute and Datacenter exclusive work. Navi is the last vestige of the Raja concepts, and Lisa Su is not a parallel compute engineer. She-s brilliant, but she is complex compute (CPU) through and through. From college, to every stop along her illustrious career, GPUs are not her thing. She needs to put the control and trust in other people or RTG will be off the discreet GPU consumer landscape sooner than later.
reply
AMD, the 590, and Navi. A novel.
The price of the rx590 does kinda suck for AMD. People always mess this up, but -THE MSRP OF THE 580 8GB- is $219. 99. The 480 was $229. 99, but was dropped $10 because the 1060 was still outselling it 10: 1 before mining.
Anyway, with blower/1 mid fan 580-s at $199. 99, and numerous cards with the 1255/1375 core/boost and 2000 mem (8GBs) speeds which OC to -at least- 1400 (silver chips, or about 50% to 1450, gold 1560 was the highest I-ve ever seen benchmarked; I-ve gotten one to 1506 core/2150 mem, but have another that creeks at 1400, so great luck & bad luck, but about 5% of chips will get over 1475 and 2150-2200 mem (9GBs), so the price just seems crazy (he, $30 really does make that much of a difference on midrange cards, especially w/new 1070-s at $300-$350 daily, and $250-$300 used/refurbed.
I think this price is, and I-m sorry to say it, but to increase the price of the previous Navi rumors (-1080ti-like performance for 580 prices-. Most people who have been following Navi since it was put on the Roadmap in 2016 didn-t expect a $219. 99 1080ti performer, but, speaking for myself, I expected a, wait for it, $279. 99 card that performed between the 1080 and 1080ti in most gaming scenarios, and better than the ti in compute heavy workloads. They stated Navi would not have a high end card, and before the RTX launch, price/performance points were pretty set. The midrange $200-$270 card performed like the previous sub ti high end card, moving everything 2 price points down for slightly better performance than the previous gens two cards up the line (wow that is worded horribly.
Putting the rx590 at $279. 99 will allow them to price Navi at $349. 99 or so, which will probably be $50 less than the 2060 and perform better.
The problem is, AMD needs to pull a 4000 series launch with Navi. They need to come close to 2080 performance (93% in the case of the 4000 series) for less than half the price, with a model lower in the $250 range that beats slides just under a 2070. That-s the only way they have earned market share back in the past.
Slightly less expensive -AND- slightly better at most games does not cut it. The 8GB 480 was under $150 and was slapped silly by 970-s and 3GB 1060-s for 33%+ more money. The 580 was outsold 5: 1 (better than the 10: 1 of the 480) with equal to, and usually a little better in newer games, for $40-$50 less, and until mining, the price had dropped to $179. 99 at one point (for the 8GB model.
They need to be in OEM-s first and foremost. They need to be better, and a lot less expensive to get people to switch as Nvidia fans are _Apple_ loyal (and AMD fans are as well, but seem, on average, more educated about computers in general, and regular consumers aren-t watching or reading an aggregate 100 benchmarks worth of videos/charts. They see -Powered by Nvidia- stickers on PC-s and laptops, so they naturally assume their -off the shelf- card of choice should be a $229. 95 3GB 1060 is a better value than the 8GB 580 at $219. 95, because they know the name, and it must be $10 more bc it-s better, right?
So again, the rx590 is priced too high. AMD needs to be in far more OEM-s. I also don-t understand why they don-t push for a small logo or sticker on console boxes that says -Powered by AMD- or -Featuring AMD Graphics-. Even if it-s just on the darn console box.
Once they get a 30% or so market share, they can do what they want (well they can regardless, I-m just referring to what they need to do and should do, but until them brand recognition -AND- consumers choosing them should be their main focus in the sub $1500 market.
Example: Gordon said he was stunned that the 580 was slightly faster than the 1060. He-s not exactly new to the party, and I-ve been reading his articles since they were on real life paper (I was a PC World Magazine sub for 10 years.
If you look at Steam Surveys the 480/580 account for 4% of the cards used. The 1060? 30%. That is a ridiculous disparity, and if you add all the other AMD cards listed their % jumps all the way to. 5. 5%.
Lisa Su has a boatload of work to do in the GPU department, and with Intel opening a facility in India with 1500 parallel process engineers, you-d have to think that in 2020 they will be giving OEMs some insane deals on CPU/GPU combos, which is what AMD should be doing right now.
Make a deal with Walmart and their -OP- line that has a 2600 and a 590 they can sell for $850 usd. Do the same with HP and Dell. Get a Geek Squad Exclusive with a 2700 and V56 w/16 GB pc3000, a boot ssd, 2tb hdd, 600 watt PSU on a micro ATX 450 that has 4 dimm slots for $1093. 95 (priced out w/ cheap but not -look out I may blow up- parts I-m at $935 cost w/o Windows, but Best Buy obviously pays a little less than us.
If they have any intention of keeping RTG relevant outside of the professional market, they need to commit again. Even w/ the small Steam saturation, mining made the 570 and 580 sell far better than they could have hoped. Zen has made them cult consumer rockstars. Add it all together and they literally overshot projections by nearly a billion usd (a billion more than projected q3 2017-q2 2018, so they have the capital. It really boils down to: Is Lisa Su going to hire more engineers for RTG as opposed to pulling them for complex compute and Datacenter exclusive work. Navi is the last vestige of the Raja concepts, and Lisa Su is not a parallel compute engineer. She-s brilliant, but she is complex compute (CPU) through and through. From college, to every stop along her illustrious career, GPUs are not her thing. She needs to put the control and trust in other people or RTG will be off the discreet GPU consumer landscape sooner than later.
reply
Peter
Brad Chacos.
Mate, I disagree with you on Nvidia cards being more reliable. Shortly (the first few years) after the transition from ATI to AMD Radeon cards were more prone to failing and there were some rooky mistakes from AMD because they were not used to handling graphics: they underestimated the amount of work to support drivers and supporting software (Koduri changed this) and there were some quality control issues. I also have noticed it first hand. My HD 6850 died (no overclocking) and my HD 7850 from Sapphire had the plastic shroud with cooler detach from the PCB because the glue connection couldn't handle the torque. Yes, that is a thing. (now it is ducktaped and it works fine)
However, the last years, there wer not many issues with AMD cards failing. On the other hand of the 700-series and 900-series a lot of high-end cards are dying. According to Buildzoid (Actually Hardware Overclocking, you know the guy) there is a serious design error which causes the failing (some component which isn't rated for a long longevity under those circumstances. Now the 2000-series.
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Brad Chacos.
Mate, I disagree with you on Nvidia cards being more reliable. Shortly (the first few years) after the transition from ATI to AMD Radeon cards were more prone to failing and there were some rooky mistakes from AMD because they were not used to handling graphics: they underestimated the amount of work to support drivers and supporting software (Koduri changed this) and there were some quality control issues. I also have noticed it first hand. My HD 6850 died (no overclocking) and my HD 7850 from Sapphire had the plastic shroud with cooler detach from the PCB because the glue connection couldn't handle the torque. Yes, that is a thing. (now it is ducktaped and it works fine)
However, the last years, there wer not many issues with AMD cards failing. On the other hand of the 700-series and 900-series a lot of high-end cards are dying. According to Buildzoid (Actually Hardware Overclocking, you know the guy) there is a serious design error which causes the failing (some component which isn't rated for a long longevity under those circumstances. Now the 2000-series.
reply
Nocturnal101
Its the Consumer versus Prosumer with computer parts, people want consumer based prices for Prosumer products, so that they can feel like they are a part of the Enthusiast level of communities. The largest divides as Blizzard proved PC Gaming > Console Gaming > Mobile Console Gaming > Mobile TimePassers(not gaming in my mind) you really can't market products to individuals that are not in the market segment, people may complain but to be fair NVidia did market this as a Prosumer premium product as 2070 and greater have RTX support(for now. AMD is successful because they give kicka$$ products for a price people can absorb at a mainstream level. NVidia is expensive but they are more progressive with technology marketing the ecosystem as Premium(which it is for the most part Freesync versus Gsync is a perfect example)Either way its more out of ignorance, or selfishness, that they want to see the industry as they want it to be rather than what it is.
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Its the Consumer versus Prosumer with computer parts, people want consumer based prices for Prosumer products, so that they can feel like they are a part of the Enthusiast level of communities. The largest divides as Blizzard proved PC Gaming > Console Gaming > Mobile Console Gaming > Mobile TimePassers(not gaming in my mind) you really can't market products to individuals that are not in the market segment, people may complain but to be fair NVidia did market this as a Prosumer premium product as 2070 and greater have RTX support(for now. AMD is successful because they give kicka$$ products for a price people can absorb at a mainstream level. NVidia is expensive but they are more progressive with technology marketing the ecosystem as Premium(which it is for the most part Freesync versus Gsync is a perfect example)Either way its more out of ignorance, or selfishness, that they want to see the industry as they want it to be rather than what it is.
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mike
he says nvidia more reliable (BULL SHIT)how we forget fx5000 just shit, then 2007 vista crash-s nvidia drivers to blame, 2010 Bumpgate, 2011 WARNING! NVIDIA 196. 75 drivers that has killed more cards than any other driver in history, gtx470/80 over heating, gtx 590 driver 267. 52 fry itself killin 590-s, gtx970 missing v ram, may 2018 GTX 1060 users reported that Nvidia-s latest 397. 31 was causing issues with installation, looping them into an endless cycle of failures and restarts. Nvidia-s response shows that the issues can affect almost anyone from a GTX 980 up. march 2016 nvidia pulls 364. 47 driver system instability, driver 364. 72 killing cards, oct 2016 diver broke windows 10 start menu, 375. 86 pascal vram clock issue, i remember most of this but alot of info i got of ADOREDtv(c)
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he says nvidia more reliable (BULL SHIT)how we forget fx5000 just shit, then 2007 vista crash-s nvidia drivers to blame, 2010 Bumpgate, 2011 WARNING! NVIDIA 196. 75 drivers that has killed more cards than any other driver in history, gtx470/80 over heating, gtx 590 driver 267. 52 fry itself killin 590-s, gtx970 missing v ram, may 2018 GTX 1060 users reported that Nvidia-s latest 397. 31 was causing issues with installation, looping them into an endless cycle of failures and restarts. Nvidia-s response shows that the issues can affect almost anyone from a GTX 980 up. march 2016 nvidia pulls 364. 47 driver system instability, driver 364. 72 killing cards, oct 2016 diver broke windows 10 start menu, 375. 86 pascal vram clock issue, i remember most of this but alot of info i got of ADOREDtv(c)
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TheDarthTux
34: 03 Exactly, ray tracing or even path tracing for that matter would not be of benefit in MMOs like Battlefield or even games like Doom for the very simple reason that you need speed and re doing things so quickly that unless you are extremely good at the game or an experienced solider or military person, you wouldn't notice and therefore know how to use in a way that benefits your game play experience. You need stealth and strategy games like Theif, Shadow of the Tomb Raider, Hitman, etc to really be able to use what ray tracing brings in your game play and immersion. Ray tracing is not purely about having high quality graphics but a different type of game play
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34: 03 Exactly, ray tracing or even path tracing for that matter would not be of benefit in MMOs like Battlefield or even games like Doom for the very simple reason that you need speed and re doing things so quickly that unless you are extremely good at the game or an experienced solider or military person, you wouldn't notice and therefore know how to use in a way that benefits your game play experience. You need stealth and strategy games like Theif, Shadow of the Tomb Raider, Hitman, etc to really be able to use what ray tracing brings in your game play and immersion. Ray tracing is not purely about having high quality graphics but a different type of game play
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AdaaDK
-Gordon what your forgetting with your (people forget that its extreme/ultimate hardware bs, is that this is a pricehike even within the Enthusiast marked/parts.
The top dogs (x8 cards) or Ti cards, have never gone this high, and most of the time they have been stable around 549(080) and 649-749(TI) this is almost a x70% on top of those prices, for same or less extra preformance compared to earlier generations. ITs very shady buiesness its worse than when candy makers comes less in the bags in stead of charging you more, Nvidia now puts less preformance in their cards and charges you 60-80% more for them on top of that.
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-Gordon what your forgetting with your (people forget that its extreme/ultimate hardware bs, is that this is a pricehike even within the Enthusiast marked/parts.
The top dogs (x8 cards) or Ti cards, have never gone this high, and most of the time they have been stable around 549(080) and 649-749(TI) this is almost a x70% on top of those prices, for same or less extra preformance compared to earlier generations. ITs very shady buiesness its worse than when candy makers comes less in the bags in stead of charging you more, Nvidia now puts less preformance in their cards and charges you 60-80% more for them on top of that.
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dhaszek
So many contradictions. -Somebody has to take a punch-. Too bad it's the consumers who have to pay for this beta product. Never going back? Lol someone buys high refresh rate monitor, 9900k and. has to switch off RT. Going back 5min after.
Another contradiction twisted to match your narrative. NOBODY IS SAYING THIS TECHNOLOGY IS EVIL. which you constantly ingore. it's just not ready for now, features don't even work, nobody knows when? And yet -sales guys- will push people's money to develop it.
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So many contradictions. -Somebody has to take a punch-. Too bad it's the consumers who have to pay for this beta product. Never going back? Lol someone buys high refresh rate monitor, 9900k and. has to switch off RT. Going back 5min after.
Another contradiction twisted to match your narrative. NOBODY IS SAYING THIS TECHNOLOGY IS EVIL. which you constantly ingore. it's just not ready for now, features don't even work, nobody knows when? And yet -sales guys- will push people's money to develop it.
reply
Game
It was good that Nvidia release the RTX cards before there was any games that had it because they were first able to hash out any driver issues with just using the cards and regular gaming and also apparently using them with g sync and freesync monitors. Now that Ray tracing is out hopefully most of the bugs with the drivers are fixed with the regular gaming and now they can focus on optimizing RTX. It was a good move by them to release the cards early in my opinion.
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It was good that Nvidia release the RTX cards before there was any games that had it because they were first able to hash out any driver issues with just using the cards and regular gaming and also apparently using them with g sync and freesync monitors. Now that Ray tracing is out hopefully most of the bugs with the drivers are fixed with the regular gaming and now they can focus on optimizing RTX. It was a good move by them to release the cards early in my opinion.
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Giovanni
Polaris rx 590 is comparable to the '9th gen' Intel chips to 8th gen. If people are thinking of 1050/ 1050ti, buy a 1060/1070 ex mining card.
5000 people can afford to ray trace; 10 million plus people just want to game at a reasonable frame rate and with a nice picture.
Artefacting Graphics cards will be worth more because they are so rare. I'm surprised Nvidia hasn't asked if the customers were really sure they want to return their limited edition card.
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Polaris rx 590 is comparable to the '9th gen' Intel chips to 8th gen. If people are thinking of 1050/ 1050ti, buy a 1060/1070 ex mining card.
5000 people can afford to ray trace; 10 million plus people just want to game at a reasonable frame rate and with a nice picture.
Artefacting Graphics cards will be worth more because they are so rare. I'm surprised Nvidia hasn't asked if the customers were really sure they want to return their limited edition card.
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bob
test models escaping? in other words they had test models that werent working right but they were short on cards and knew they could send bad cards out and just rma them later and replace them. you still get the sale. migth as well have sent them an empty box and said -oh know there no card in there? well we will send one out right away in about a month- same thing. if they send out a bad card or an empty box they still get the sale
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test models escaping? in other words they had test models that werent working right but they were short on cards and knew they could send bad cards out and just rma them later and replace them. you still get the sale. migth as well have sent them an empty box and said -oh know there no card in there? well we will send one out right away in about a month- same thing. if they send out a bad card or an empty box they still get the sale
reply
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