Word Processors Are Evil And Should Not Exist! DistroTube
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Date: 2022-03-30
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Comments and reviews: 10
Elysian
Hold on a moment... DocX is proprietary? Now I know you don't know what you're talking about. DocX is an XML based document format, it's Open dude. Sharing a DocX file isn't supposed to retain the -Look- of the document, just the details (Paragraphs here, Margin Sizes are these, Fonts if available, Picture over here, etc.), Sharing a PDF is supposed to retain the final look of the document. If a DocX breaks in your editor (From Word to Libra) it usually means your Word Processor is missing a font face or something that the document is using in it.
The reason why these proprietary formats exist is because txt was limited back then (it still is today, I don't see Pictures and Text Color in a txt file). Before WYSIWYG it was psychotic to make something like a Magazine article or Newspaper article or something that required some kind of editing to make it look -Presentable-. Then comes in the concept of secure documents that need to be signed (Something PDF files excel at). PDF is more like the digital equivalent of a -Printed Document- you don't edit a PDF, if you're editing a PDF you're doing something wrong. And word processors offer so much more than just WYSIWYG, there's grammar checking, spell checking, preview how your text will come out, will this image fit into the page?, how will this look in a web page and how will it look when printed?, will this fit into one page?, etc. There's so much more to a word processor. If you need to do something and it needs to look professional, you use a word processor. Word Processors weren't originally made for normal people, they were originally made for businesses and actual professionals, they leaked into the normal market afterwards.
A Plain text editor is good for quickly jotting down something insignificant, like a small note, or maybe a quick script, or some random idea.
But a Word Processor is when you're getting down to actually do some work. The font, size, margin, word count, colors, etc. is all important when writing anything with some meat on it.
And yes, you can turn on the -symbols- to quickly see what's in your document. Any Word Processor worth its salt should be able to do that. The point of a Word Processor is to accelerate your ability to get a document out that's both correct and presentable. True writers don't get distracted, they write and they edit until they're done. Word Processors are exactly that: Tools that allow writers to be faster than anyone wasting their time adding extra symbols to their document that aren't even going to be visible in the end product. Might as well skip the middle man and see the document in its final state as you type.
I mean, how else will you know if your 3-x5- book will look right with all these -Symbols-? Answer: You don't until you've processed or printed it. A word processor saves you time by letting you just straight up type everything the way you want to. And the best part: You can change anything you want on the fly without thinking about it and see if it will or will not work for what you're writing right then and there.
These so called Proprietary formats exist simply because: You want an edge against your competition? Pay up! Word Processors was one of the BIGGEST markets back then simply because they allowed writers to be so much faster WITHOUT having to know anything about a computer. Their job was making money, and if a word processor let them be faster and better than their rivals, you best believe that they're willing to pay for that edge. A Typist on a Typewriter can be faster than a Typist on a Word Processor, until the first mistake is made, then the Word Processor typist will thoroughly destroy the Typewriter. I mean, why do you think the PDF format became the standard? Because it made it so that you had absolute confidence in your finished document when you printed it, it allowed you to see precisely what you were printing out without having to second guess yourself.
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Hold on a moment... DocX is proprietary? Now I know you don't know what you're talking about. DocX is an XML based document format, it's Open dude. Sharing a DocX file isn't supposed to retain the -Look- of the document, just the details (Paragraphs here, Margin Sizes are these, Fonts if available, Picture over here, etc.), Sharing a PDF is supposed to retain the final look of the document. If a DocX breaks in your editor (From Word to Libra) it usually means your Word Processor is missing a font face or something that the document is using in it.
The reason why these proprietary formats exist is because txt was limited back then (it still is today, I don't see Pictures and Text Color in a txt file). Before WYSIWYG it was psychotic to make something like a Magazine article or Newspaper article or something that required some kind of editing to make it look -Presentable-. Then comes in the concept of secure documents that need to be signed (Something PDF files excel at). PDF is more like the digital equivalent of a -Printed Document- you don't edit a PDF, if you're editing a PDF you're doing something wrong. And word processors offer so much more than just WYSIWYG, there's grammar checking, spell checking, preview how your text will come out, will this image fit into the page?, how will this look in a web page and how will it look when printed?, will this fit into one page?, etc. There's so much more to a word processor. If you need to do something and it needs to look professional, you use a word processor. Word Processors weren't originally made for normal people, they were originally made for businesses and actual professionals, they leaked into the normal market afterwards.
A Plain text editor is good for quickly jotting down something insignificant, like a small note, or maybe a quick script, or some random idea.
But a Word Processor is when you're getting down to actually do some work. The font, size, margin, word count, colors, etc. is all important when writing anything with some meat on it.
And yes, you can turn on the -symbols- to quickly see what's in your document. Any Word Processor worth its salt should be able to do that. The point of a Word Processor is to accelerate your ability to get a document out that's both correct and presentable. True writers don't get distracted, they write and they edit until they're done. Word Processors are exactly that: Tools that allow writers to be faster than anyone wasting their time adding extra symbols to their document that aren't even going to be visible in the end product. Might as well skip the middle man and see the document in its final state as you type.
I mean, how else will you know if your 3-x5- book will look right with all these -Symbols-? Answer: You don't until you've processed or printed it. A word processor saves you time by letting you just straight up type everything the way you want to. And the best part: You can change anything you want on the fly without thinking about it and see if it will or will not work for what you're writing right then and there.
These so called Proprietary formats exist simply because: You want an edge against your competition? Pay up! Word Processors was one of the BIGGEST markets back then simply because they allowed writers to be so much faster WITHOUT having to know anything about a computer. Their job was making money, and if a word processor let them be faster and better than their rivals, you best believe that they're willing to pay for that edge. A Typist on a Typewriter can be faster than a Typist on a Word Processor, until the first mistake is made, then the Word Processor typist will thoroughly destroy the Typewriter. I mean, why do you think the PDF format became the standard? Because it made it so that you had absolute confidence in your finished document when you printed it, it allowed you to see precisely what you were printing out without having to second guess yourself.
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mago2007
Ths is why people are afraid or rejects linux folks like you. You are absolutely certain of being right and you are so wrong. I remember it was 2006/07 when I first tried Ubuntu, and for a windows user it was a pain in the ass even to mount a flash drive. I was 20 so I had a lot of time. It took me 5 days to get my pc working with my graphics card, I broked the system several times each day, I didn't have any programming or computer science background, all of that was absolutly new for me. Finally I got back to windows. The hard thruth: At that time It's just was user friendly and out of the box, that's it. Today the story is different, i think linux is better than ever, im using it since 2018. I even installed in my notebook which came with a W10 licence. The thing is, people that uses word proccesors need an easy to use soft to do what they need to do and spend no time in geting the soft running and learning how to use it, they need to work as much as possible with the time they have. They don't have time nor incentive to learn a thing that gives you the same result. They don't get stuck thinking on text sizes, fonts or whatever, that is just nonsense. Even more, there are plenity of format rules in order to get published and even on workplaces, and university assignments too. So you are just ranting your neerdy akward words, word processors are user friendly tools that most people use, no mater what OS they are running. I use latex through Python and R, but Im not so narrow sighted to think that word processors have no purpose, that's talking against hard facts. Also, your videos -from noob to poower user- really sucks, changing a theme is nonsense, make something interesting, show how to write in latex if you care so much.
Cheers!
PD: Wrote at Xed but I could have used libreoffice writer 7
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Ths is why people are afraid or rejects linux folks like you. You are absolutely certain of being right and you are so wrong. I remember it was 2006/07 when I first tried Ubuntu, and for a windows user it was a pain in the ass even to mount a flash drive. I was 20 so I had a lot of time. It took me 5 days to get my pc working with my graphics card, I broked the system several times each day, I didn't have any programming or computer science background, all of that was absolutly new for me. Finally I got back to windows. The hard thruth: At that time It's just was user friendly and out of the box, that's it. Today the story is different, i think linux is better than ever, im using it since 2018. I even installed in my notebook which came with a W10 licence. The thing is, people that uses word proccesors need an easy to use soft to do what they need to do and spend no time in geting the soft running and learning how to use it, they need to work as much as possible with the time they have. They don't have time nor incentive to learn a thing that gives you the same result. They don't get stuck thinking on text sizes, fonts or whatever, that is just nonsense. Even more, there are plenity of format rules in order to get published and even on workplaces, and university assignments too. So you are just ranting your neerdy akward words, word processors are user friendly tools that most people use, no mater what OS they are running. I use latex through Python and R, but Im not so narrow sighted to think that word processors have no purpose, that's talking against hard facts. Also, your videos -from noob to poower user- really sucks, changing a theme is nonsense, make something interesting, show how to write in latex if you care so much.
Cheers!
PD: Wrote at Xed but I could have used libreoffice writer 7
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woody-cool
I tend to use LibreOffice Writer or AbiWord, however, the way I do it is this: (and it's what I was taught back in my school days)
1. plan what you want to write, even if it's just scribbles of notes on paper
2. write it up as text in the word processor of choice, do NOT format it, just type as if it was plain text.
3. save it
4. proof read it, correct any spelling/grammar errors, re-save it, overwrite the original
5. format it, make it look how you want it, insert any pictures, graphs, etc. that you want, Save As, add a revision number or version number to the end of the filename
6. read through again, check for any spelling/grammar errors you missed, check the formatting is correct, even do a -Print Preview- to check it'll look alright on the page, after any major change, do a Save As and increment the version number.
7. one you're happy with it, either email or print it and send it to the recipient
8. delete all previous versions except the first one and the last one, you don't need the other ones now as you've already decided you're happy with it.
and if you're emailing it, ALWAYS use a format that can be opened in as many applications as possible, in fact, I'd advise saving it as PDF and emailing that version, I don't know any modern OS that cannot open a PDF, hell, even most web browsers can do that now.
reply
I tend to use LibreOffice Writer or AbiWord, however, the way I do it is this: (and it's what I was taught back in my school days)
1. plan what you want to write, even if it's just scribbles of notes on paper
2. write it up as text in the word processor of choice, do NOT format it, just type as if it was plain text.
3. save it
4. proof read it, correct any spelling/grammar errors, re-save it, overwrite the original
5. format it, make it look how you want it, insert any pictures, graphs, etc. that you want, Save As, add a revision number or version number to the end of the filename
6. read through again, check for any spelling/grammar errors you missed, check the formatting is correct, even do a -Print Preview- to check it'll look alright on the page, after any major change, do a Save As and increment the version number.
7. one you're happy with it, either email or print it and send it to the recipient
8. delete all previous versions except the first one and the last one, you don't need the other ones now as you've already decided you're happy with it.
and if you're emailing it, ALWAYS use a format that can be opened in as many applications as possible, in fact, I'd advise saving it as PDF and emailing that version, I don't know any modern OS that cannot open a PDF, hell, even most web browsers can do that now.
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Mark
That's not the intended way to use word processors. If you read the LibreOffice documentation, it clearly tells you to first establish a style set, including formatting for chapter headings, footnotes, tables, lists, quote blocks, and so on. Then as you're writing, you simply apply the style as need be, otherwise it defaults to the standard body text format. Yes, constant tweaking of visual styles can be unproductive, but on the other hand humans are fickle and have short attention spans. The difference between having somebody actually read your document or just giving up on it can be something as seemingly trivial as the font used or the line arrangement used. I've seen documents considered -trash- when left-aligned, only to then be considered -professional- when justified. I'm not saying that you can't achieve that with Latex or Vim + other tools, but a word processor makes that a one-stop-shop. This reminds me too much of the terminal vs GUI debate that still plagues OS discussions. It's the wrong mentality. The right tool for the job is the one that works best for you. If you cut a plank of wood with a bandsaw, a chainsaw, or a handsaw, who really cares so long as it fits the goal in mind.
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That's not the intended way to use word processors. If you read the LibreOffice documentation, it clearly tells you to first establish a style set, including formatting for chapter headings, footnotes, tables, lists, quote blocks, and so on. Then as you're writing, you simply apply the style as need be, otherwise it defaults to the standard body text format. Yes, constant tweaking of visual styles can be unproductive, but on the other hand humans are fickle and have short attention spans. The difference between having somebody actually read your document or just giving up on it can be something as seemingly trivial as the font used or the line arrangement used. I've seen documents considered -trash- when left-aligned, only to then be considered -professional- when justified. I'm not saying that you can't achieve that with Latex or Vim + other tools, but a word processor makes that a one-stop-shop. This reminds me too much of the terminal vs GUI debate that still plagues OS discussions. It's the wrong mentality. The right tool for the job is the one that works best for you. If you cut a plank of wood with a bandsaw, a chainsaw, or a handsaw, who really cares so long as it fits the goal in mind.
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Sara
As a writer that is a surprisingly poor typist, I am afraid that I have to refute some of this. I agree that proprietary formats like docx are terrible, that's why I use odt. BUT, the main benefit of using a word processor for me is the on-the-fly spelling/grammar checking. Never have I worried about formatting or typesetting or anything to make the document look pretty until after I've completed the final draft. When I was in college, none of my classmates cared about making their stuff pretty until the end either. Most publishers prefer a document to be relatively unformatted as they will generally typeset it themselves based on the medium of publication. That might be different for scientific articles where latex is useful for formulas, I wouldn't know, but from personal experience, I found trying to use latex to be a nightmare akin to trying to write code. Writers don't care about formatting, they care about opening a document, writing, little red or green lines pointing out possible mistakes, and saving to write more later. Anything done after the fact is just a bonus.
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As a writer that is a surprisingly poor typist, I am afraid that I have to refute some of this. I agree that proprietary formats like docx are terrible, that's why I use odt. BUT, the main benefit of using a word processor for me is the on-the-fly spelling/grammar checking. Never have I worried about formatting or typesetting or anything to make the document look pretty until after I've completed the final draft. When I was in college, none of my classmates cared about making their stuff pretty until the end either. Most publishers prefer a document to be relatively unformatted as they will generally typeset it themselves based on the medium of publication. That might be different for scientific articles where latex is useful for formulas, I wouldn't know, but from personal experience, I found trying to use latex to be a nightmare akin to trying to write code. Writers don't care about formatting, they care about opening a document, writing, little red or green lines pointing out possible mistakes, and saving to write more later. Anything done after the fact is just a bonus.
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Davey
You're not wrong (I was a typesetter for years, and to this day I hate any document where someone tried to typeset or page layout in Word), but are kinda b-ss-ackward. They're not evil, just in many (most) cases misused. I write all the time, and the only commands I use are italic, bold and underline (things I can't do in something like ultraEdit). If the author leaves formatting to his editor, yay. But my pages look like I typed 'em on my trusty old typewriter; Courier New, nothing fancy. View in normal mode, too, not page mode. I get writing _done_ that way. I do my page layout in InDesign CS2, which is both free and vastly more powerful than any of the page layout alternatives you listed. I spend more time in my word processor than in any other program. ;-)
Last I looked a bunch of high-end places (businesses to colleges) still won't happily accept a DOCX file. Too microsoft. They'll take DOC, RTF and TXT, though.
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You're not wrong (I was a typesetter for years, and to this day I hate any document where someone tried to typeset or page layout in Word), but are kinda b-ss-ackward. They're not evil, just in many (most) cases misused. I write all the time, and the only commands I use are italic, bold and underline (things I can't do in something like ultraEdit). If the author leaves formatting to his editor, yay. But my pages look like I typed 'em on my trusty old typewriter; Courier New, nothing fancy. View in normal mode, too, not page mode. I get writing _done_ that way. I do my page layout in InDesign CS2, which is both free and vastly more powerful than any of the page layout alternatives you listed. I spend more time in my word processor than in any other program. ;-)
Last I looked a bunch of high-end places (businesses to colleges) still won't happily accept a DOCX file. Too microsoft. They'll take DOC, RTF and TXT, though.
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desmondsparrs
I hate that I always need to remove Libre office and all the other bloat I never use in my distros.
I dont think they're pointless though. I used to write a lot of poetry, fiction back in the day but I dont do it now.
rn Im trying to export my Evernote-DB and just use Joplin because Evernote is terrible nowadays. And I only need to do some simple notes and ideas and whatnot. And to be synced through the cloud on all my devices.
And Joplin is FOSS(but costs a bit for their cloud-service).
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I hate that I always need to remove Libre office and all the other bloat I never use in my distros.
I dont think they're pointless though. I used to write a lot of poetry, fiction back in the day but I dont do it now.
rn Im trying to export my Evernote-DB and just use Joplin because Evernote is terrible nowadays. And I only need to do some simple notes and ideas and whatnot. And to be synced through the cloud on all my devices.
And Joplin is FOSS(but costs a bit for their cloud-service).
reply
Pawe-
I write some documentation and reports (text, tables, photos) every month, all to be finally printed. I do it that way: markdown > pandoc+weasyprint > PDF. Of course I had to prepare the CSS for weasyprint, but I did it once and now I dont have to think about the styles. This way is much much quicker than doing everything in word processor, especially if the work is similar in every document. You scope only on the content.
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I write some documentation and reports (text, tables, photos) every month, all to be finally printed. I do it that way: markdown > pandoc+weasyprint > PDF. Of course I had to prepare the CSS for weasyprint, but I did it once and now I dont have to think about the styles. This way is much much quicker than doing everything in word processor, especially if the work is similar in every document. You scope only on the content.
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Enrique
I was thinking about using a text editor to write everything but decided not to go that extreme, and just removed LibreOffice Writer's toolbars and everything else. Now it is a page and a slim menu bar that brings up every option that is not available as a key shortcut. I have the simplicity of a text editor, and the features of a word processor
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I was thinking about using a text editor to write everything but decided not to go that extreme, and just removed LibreOffice Writer's toolbars and everything else. Now it is a page and a slim menu bar that brings up every option that is not available as a key shortcut. I have the simplicity of a text editor, and the features of a word processor
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killistan
The thing that bothers me about word processors: I know what you're doing to achieve your layout and I know its wrong. :P I have some idea of what the underlying xml looks like, too; and the difference between what it is and what it should be is horrific. Ever watch someone else use a word processor? It hurts, It actually hurts!
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The thing that bothers me about word processors: I know what you're doing to achieve your layout and I know its wrong. :P I have some idea of what the underlying xml looks like, too; and the difference between what it is and what it should be is horrific. Ever watch someone else use a word processor? It hurts, It actually hurts!
reply
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