Intel Battlemage GPU Deep-Dive Into a Frame - Engineering Discussion ft. Tom Petersen
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Date: 2024-12-09
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Comments and reviews: 20
lawyerlawyer1215
Anyone else likes Tom Petersen a lot
I’m not even interested in Intel’s GPUs because I’m an enthusiast level gamer that cares about graphics a lot and have spare money so I’ll be rocking xx90 series Nvidia GPUs till AMD or Intel are competitive in the highest tier too.
Yet I watch this videos because I just love how passionate the guys is about his job.
Like GPUs have become so corporate and serious, that it’s all become discussions, fanboys fighting, depressive takes.
This guy makes me want to be hyped about what’s coming for the sake of innovation alone. Not price-performance ratios, not if they are going to c hangs the market , just interested about the geeky tech stuff and how they improve it
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Anyone else likes Tom Petersen a lot
I’m not even interested in Intel’s GPUs because I’m an enthusiast level gamer that cares about graphics a lot and have spare money so I’ll be rocking xx90 series Nvidia GPUs till AMD or Intel are competitive in the highest tier too.
Yet I watch this videos because I just love how passionate the guys is about his job.
Like GPUs have become so corporate and serious, that it’s all become discussions, fanboys fighting, depressive takes.
This guy makes me want to be hyped about what’s coming for the sake of innovation alone. Not price-performance ratios, not if they are going to c hangs the market , just interested about the geeky tech stuff and how they improve it
reply
Tinvaak
Not the greatest video. It was more of a cover you azz technical jargon which wasn't really technical at all. The only real improvement is going from emulation to hardware and accepting more random forms of data. The rest of the uptick improvements are essentially only buffers for the initial Arc issues. We did the same with math co-processor chips decades ago. It's hardly new tech. The B580 does look good but i'l wait to see what the price is outside the USA. Speaking from experience i wouldn't trust and predictive pricing at the moment.
INtel is going in the right direction as with recent software requiring odd versions of sse4.x and avx-2 even if your system supports it it doesn't mean that it will be recognized.
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Not the greatest video. It was more of a cover you azz technical jargon which wasn't really technical at all. The only real improvement is going from emulation to hardware and accepting more random forms of data. The rest of the uptick improvements are essentially only buffers for the initial Arc issues. We did the same with math co-processor chips decades ago. It's hardly new tech. The B580 does look good but i'l wait to see what the price is outside the USA. Speaking from experience i wouldn't trust and predictive pricing at the moment.
INtel is going in the right direction as with recent software requiring odd versions of sse4.x and avx-2 even if your system supports it it doesn't mean that it will be recognized.
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erictayet
I love good old engineering tales, except this is for their latest product. In fact, I'm surprised Lunar Lake Xe2 is faster than AMD Strix Point, although that does have the advantage of on chip RAM. It will be interesting how Battlemage stuck up to Strix Halo and RX 8600.
I'm sure the CPU side has great talent too but they really need to sort out the latency problems with Arrow Lake first.
And of course, Intel Fab needs to get 18A defect rates down some more. Last week's news about yield being 10% may be for very large chips from Broadcom. Smaller chips/chiplets should have much higher yields. And 18A is a few quarters from official launch so there's time for Intel & ASML to work out the kinks.
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I love good old engineering tales, except this is for their latest product. In fact, I'm surprised Lunar Lake Xe2 is faster than AMD Strix Point, although that does have the advantage of on chip RAM. It will be interesting how Battlemage stuck up to Strix Halo and RX 8600.
I'm sure the CPU side has great talent too but they really need to sort out the latency problems with Arrow Lake first.
And of course, Intel Fab needs to get 18A defect rates down some more. Last week's news about yield being 10% may be for very large chips from Broadcom. Smaller chips/chiplets should have much higher yields. And 18A is a few quarters from official launch so there's time for Intel & ASML to work out the kinks.
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montecorbit8280
At 4:37
Haven't finished video, but wanted to make a comment....
I really liked the previous interviews that you've done with this guy, and the knowledge gained. So here is the comment:
I wished you could find a way to go this in depth with other companies and other video cards and processors. I would love for Intel to do interviews with you on their processors. I would love for AMD to do interviews on not just their video cards but their processors as well. I would love for Nvidia to do videos like this for their video cards....
I hope you can find a way to make that happen.
Now, back to the regularly scheduled program....errr....video.
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At 4:37
Haven't finished video, but wanted to make a comment....
I really liked the previous interviews that you've done with this guy, and the knowledge gained. So here is the comment:
I wished you could find a way to go this in depth with other companies and other video cards and processors. I would love for Intel to do interviews with you on their processors. I would love for AMD to do interviews on not just their video cards but their processors as well. I would love for Nvidia to do videos like this for their video cards....
I hope you can find a way to make that happen.
Now, back to the regularly scheduled program....errr....video.
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Struct.3
This makes me realize how much hardware engineers must hate software engineers, especially the lazy/bad ones as they can make an amazing chip, and then some crazy dev just decides to suddenly do all their calculations with compute shaders. Then that game becomes really popular, and now Hardware engineers have to optimize their chips for a system that might not have been the most optimal to use for that purpose in the first place. Makes you also realize why companies that are able to do most in house, like Apple, can get some amazing efficiency results with theoretically weaker hardware.
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This makes me realize how much hardware engineers must hate software engineers, especially the lazy/bad ones as they can make an amazing chip, and then some crazy dev just decides to suddenly do all their calculations with compute shaders. Then that game becomes really popular, and now Hardware engineers have to optimize their chips for a system that might not have been the most optimal to use for that purpose in the first place. Makes you also realize why companies that are able to do most in house, like Apple, can get some amazing efficiency results with theoretically weaker hardware.
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stuartthurstan
I love these interviews with Tom. At least half of what he is trying to explain goes straight over my head yet having said that, each time you do one of these videos, my understanding of how computer graphics are drawn increases a tiny bit. I just think it's sooo cool that an engineer is prepared to spend time explaining how the new products work. Tom has a great presentation style being neither too technical nor condescending and is clearly very passionate about what he does. I really hope the Battlemage cards are a big success for Intel, and for us!
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I love these interviews with Tom. At least half of what he is trying to explain goes straight over my head yet having said that, each time you do one of these videos, my understanding of how computer graphics are drawn increases a tiny bit. I just think it's sooo cool that an engineer is prepared to spend time explaining how the new products work. Tom has a great presentation style being neither too technical nor condescending and is clearly very passionate about what he does. I really hope the Battlemage cards are a big success for Intel, and for us!
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FinxOmally
I like probably many others, am routing for Intel GPU's and excited at their model over model improvements.
We want competition in the GPU market, and we don't need a 4090 equivalent from them right now.
We want just something that can perform really well at a good price point.
Even if we get back to the 1080Ti prices I think we'd be okay with that, and that was $700.
If Intel can roll with the punches in the 4070 area and all future 70 cards I believe they will start stealing NVidia's lunch if keeping actually reasonable prices.
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I like probably many others, am routing for Intel GPU's and excited at their model over model improvements.
We want competition in the GPU market, and we don't need a 4090 equivalent from them right now.
We want just something that can perform really well at a good price point.
Even if we get back to the 1080Ti prices I think we'd be okay with that, and that was $700.
If Intel can roll with the punches in the 4070 area and all future 70 cards I believe they will start stealing NVidia's lunch if keeping actually reasonable prices.
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purgedome2386
Hehe.. Love the 'amaze at the engineers getting shit done' statement.
Hoping Intel's GPU division can get their shit done too.. Good to see someone like Tom being a part of it.
I don't trust Intel's marketing and hire ups and probably give Tom a hard time for being blunt and honest.
Any who I'm itching to buy a GPU.. my 'time frame' buy one got a lil lot longer now.. with all the GPU coming out soon.. but if the B580's impress me enough.. might buy one for the short term. Need to retire my 1070Ti. :D
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Hehe.. Love the 'amaze at the engineers getting shit done' statement.
Hoping Intel's GPU division can get their shit done too.. Good to see someone like Tom being a part of it.
I don't trust Intel's marketing and hire ups and probably give Tom a hard time for being blunt and honest.
Any who I'm itching to buy a GPU.. my 'time frame' buy one got a lil lot longer now.. with all the GPU coming out soon.. but if the B580's impress me enough.. might buy one for the short term. Need to retire my 1070Ti. :D
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I2obiNtube
This is definitely where hardware evaluation needs to head. As a programmer we are definitely at the point as Tom has mentioned that CPU/software is becoming too complex to ignore and just assume that DirectX/OpenGL/Vulkan the OS and even the game engine can be just forgotten about when evaluating performance.
Hats off to Intel being transparent like this on their improvements. Would be great to see similar breakdowns on new CPUs and Nvidia GPUs instead of just seeing 10% improvement we think
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This is definitely where hardware evaluation needs to head. As a programmer we are definitely at the point as Tom has mentioned that CPU/software is becoming too complex to ignore and just assume that DirectX/OpenGL/Vulkan the OS and even the game engine can be just forgotten about when evaluating performance.
Hats off to Intel being transparent like this on their improvements. Would be great to see similar breakdowns on new CPUs and Nvidia GPUs instead of just seeing 10% improvement we think
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SAFFY7411
Here's hoping Intel can make proper GPU advancements and actually go for some real market share, not because AMD & Nvidia cards will get cheaper but it will end the stagnation in the lower mid range of the market which has been painful to view. There is lots of money to be made with the right products, AMD & Nvidia haven't been able to facilitate this and I hope Intel can make a difference for the consumer who must weigh his purchase instead of buying the outright best.
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Here's hoping Intel can make proper GPU advancements and actually go for some real market share, not because AMD & Nvidia cards will get cheaper but it will end the stagnation in the lower mid range of the market which has been painful to view. There is lots of money to be made with the right products, AMD & Nvidia haven't been able to facilitate this and I hope Intel can make a difference for the consumer who must weigh his purchase instead of buying the outright best.
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dgo4490
Using GPU command queues has been basically the norm for many many years. From the way he put it, they didn't really support that in first gen hardware, but were instead using smaller, slower direct commands They were selling unfinished, duct taped products all this time... Well, on the upside, they get to present the proper implementation as a great improvement, rather than admit their previous product was half ass below the acceptable baseline...
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Using GPU command queues has been basically the norm for many many years. From the way he put it, they didn't really support that in first gen hardware, but were instead using smaller, slower direct commands They were selling unfinished, duct taped products all this time... Well, on the upside, they get to present the proper implementation as a great improvement, rather than admit their previous product was half ass below the acceptable baseline...
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GiGaSzS
I am glad that companies allow these in depth architectural interviews with engineers. They are so much better than marketing BS and they inspire newer generation of engineers.
They also keep consumer informed about the background of the devices.
Another note on complexity, all of these 20 billion transistors had to be put on integrated circuits and verified by people/engineers, so the complexity of modern integrated circuits is insane!
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I am glad that companies allow these in depth architectural interviews with engineers. They are so much better than marketing BS and they inspire newer generation of engineers.
They also keep consumer informed about the background of the devices.
Another note on complexity, all of these 20 billion transistors had to be put on integrated circuits and verified by people/engineers, so the complexity of modern integrated circuits is insane!
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Ferdinand208
I wish Intel would do more like this. If you make cool stuff but you want to keep secret... Who is going to buy it The CPU part of Intel keeps lying, and has been for about 10 years. I think that is one of the reasons AVX512 failed under Intel. And succeeded under AMD.
This video makes me want to buy a Battlemage GPU from intel. Even though I don't need it and have a faster GPU. Just having cool tech to play with is its own reward.
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I wish Intel would do more like this. If you make cool stuff but you want to keep secret... Who is going to buy it The CPU part of Intel keeps lying, and has been for about 10 years. I think that is one of the reasons AVX512 failed under Intel. And succeeded under AMD.
This video makes me want to buy a Battlemage GPU from intel. Even though I don't need it and have a faster GPU. Just having cool tech to play with is its own reward.
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BladeCrew
If you want to improve rendering distance, if games can use the shader cores to improve rendering and reduce the load on the cpu. A good example would be nvidium on minecraft. The mod that use cuda cores or shading cores to render distance instead of the cpu, reducing the time to render and using the vram since its the closest. If they could make a pipeline that works like that, I would say it would be a use improvement.
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If you want to improve rendering distance, if games can use the shader cores to improve rendering and reduce the load on the cpu. A good example would be nvidium on minecraft. The mod that use cuda cores or shading cores to render distance instead of the cpu, reducing the time to render and using the vram since its the closest. If they could make a pipeline that works like that, I would say it would be a use improvement.
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tudomerda
I know its a stretch but if Intel produces a card that is capable of Raster 4k 60 hz I'd seriiously consider it. It's refreshing to listen to a no nonsense engineer talk through his product with no BS, a rarity in this day of suits in black leather jackets trying to grab the limelight peddling their mediocre over priced hardware with marketing AI slogans generated by uninmaginative punch card watchers.
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I know its a stretch but if Intel produces a card that is capable of Raster 4k 60 hz I'd seriiously consider it. It's refreshing to listen to a no nonsense engineer talk through his product with no BS, a rarity in this day of suits in black leather jackets trying to grab the limelight peddling their mediocre over priced hardware with marketing AI slogans generated by uninmaginative punch card watchers.
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haroldasraz
This is an excellent Q&A by Gamers Nexus and Tom Petersen. I really enjoy learning and understanding the thinking and planning behind the architecture. I still do not understand most of it, but it is impressive how Battlemage improved compared to Alchamest by working on different parameters. I can't wait to get my hands on the B570, especially since increasing Hz on these dGPUs is relatively easy.
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This is an excellent Q&A by Gamers Nexus and Tom Petersen. I really enjoy learning and understanding the thinking and planning behind the architecture. I still do not understand most of it, but it is impressive how Battlemage improved compared to Alchamest by working on different parameters. I can't wait to get my hands on the B570, especially since increasing Hz on these dGPUs is relatively easy.
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KRK2025
Please do share any update regarding SAM / ReBar Requirement.
is it Mandatory like the Alchemist, which really really hold it from purchasing for me personally.
i personally believe on using the technology as much as possible till its being helpful/Productive for your day to day tasks.
Also regarding the E-Waste, Circular Economy, Sustainability last but not least Carbon footprint.
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Please do share any update regarding SAM / ReBar Requirement.
is it Mandatory like the Alchemist, which really really hold it from purchasing for me personally.
i personally believe on using the technology as much as possible till its being helpful/Productive for your day to day tasks.
Also regarding the E-Waste, Circular Economy, Sustainability last but not least Carbon footprint.
reply
flekkzo
I like how GN know the difference between an interview (I mean it’s kind of a presentation, but it’s close) where the job is to help the audience to understand and to help the person getting interviewed.
As opposed to an interview where you want to extract information that the interviewee doesn’t want to give up (like the scams that GN has exposed).
This isn’t common anymore:(
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I like how GN know the difference between an interview (I mean it’s kind of a presentation, but it’s close) where the job is to help the audience to understand and to help the person getting interviewed.
As opposed to an interview where you want to extract information that the interviewee doesn’t want to give up (like the scams that GN has exposed).
This isn’t common anymore:(
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ptung88
I really hope Intel can survive and get in a position to where they can start reinvesting more money into discrete GPUs. The generational uplift over Alchemist is impressive, regardless of where Battlemage stands with AMD/NVIDIA. XeSS upscaling seems like a great alternative to DLSS and especially FSR. Two years in, we still don’t have an FSR AI upscaler.
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I really hope Intel can survive and get in a position to where they can start reinvesting more money into discrete GPUs. The generational uplift over Alchemist is impressive, regardless of where Battlemage stands with AMD/NVIDIA. XeSS upscaling seems like a great alternative to DLSS and especially FSR. Two years in, we still don’t have an FSR AI upscaler.
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hussainmohd6298
intel's old timer engineers are some of the best in the business, its sad that they aren't given enough authority or governance to dictate the quality of products, instead the pencil pushers give us the 13 and 14 gen degredation and the Ultra series fiascos....
Intel needs to put engineers back in charge, MIGA = Make intel great again!
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intel's old timer engineers are some of the best in the business, its sad that they aren't given enough authority or governance to dictate the quality of products, instead the pencil pushers give us the 13 and 14 gen degredation and the Ultra series fiascos....
Intel needs to put engineers back in charge, MIGA = Make intel great again!
reply
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