Legionaries vs. Phalanx | The Ultimate Battle of Cynoscephalae | 197 BC
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Date: 2024-03-30
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Comments and reviews: 35
rcmunro22
The late period Hellenic armies like the one at the Battle of Cynoscephalae had long degraded from the Macedonian Armies of Phillip II & Alexander.
This was mainly caused by the Diadochi Succession Wars that ensued after the death of Alexander. The constant in-fighting saw the Hellenic armies move away from combined arms & focus almost entirely on Sarrisa vs Sarrisa Phalanx battles since when facing similar styled armies the Diacdochi found those with the higher quality Pike Phalanx tended to come out on top. Slowly over time they moved away from things like Hyspasists (Elite Heavy but Flexible Infantry) & Lancer/Heavy Cavalry which guarded the flanks of the Phalanx & provided the Hammer to the Anvil.
The Macedonian armies Rome face by the time of their expansion were shells of their former selves. Had the Diadochi Wars not taken place & the traditional styled armies of Phillip II & Alexander had been preserved, Rome would have been in for rough time.
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The late period Hellenic armies like the one at the Battle of Cynoscephalae had long degraded from the Macedonian Armies of Phillip II & Alexander.
This was mainly caused by the Diadochi Succession Wars that ensued after the death of Alexander. The constant in-fighting saw the Hellenic armies move away from combined arms & focus almost entirely on Sarrisa vs Sarrisa Phalanx battles since when facing similar styled armies the Diacdochi found those with the higher quality Pike Phalanx tended to come out on top. Slowly over time they moved away from things like Hyspasists (Elite Heavy but Flexible Infantry) & Lancer/Heavy Cavalry which guarded the flanks of the Phalanx & provided the Hammer to the Anvil.
The Macedonian armies Rome face by the time of their expansion were shells of their former selves. Had the Diadochi Wars not taken place & the traditional styled armies of Phillip II & Alexander had been preserved, Rome would have been in for rough time.
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Warmaker01
The Tribune that ordered the detachment to turn and attack towards the left is a big deal because of how command and control really works. You have to understand there's no God's Eye View of watching the battle with the ability to instantly order any unit anywhere on the battlefield to do what you want. It's not like video games. The reality was orders were issued and that was essentially it. You may tell a unit when to attack, but controlling them was now left to the subordinates.
The lower ranking officers have to recognize what's going on and act accordingly. It would have been really easy for the Romans on the right to keep pursuing the fleeing opponents there, but that one Tribune remembered what the big picture was and took decisive, proper action that won the battle. Whoever he was, I hope he was recognized and rewarded for that.
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The Tribune that ordered the detachment to turn and attack towards the left is a big deal because of how command and control really works. You have to understand there's no God's Eye View of watching the battle with the ability to instantly order any unit anywhere on the battlefield to do what you want. It's not like video games. The reality was orders were issued and that was essentially it. You may tell a unit when to attack, but controlling them was now left to the subordinates.
The lower ranking officers have to recognize what's going on and act accordingly. It would have been really easy for the Romans on the right to keep pursuing the fleeing opponents there, but that one Tribune remembered what the big picture was and took decisive, proper action that won the battle. Whoever he was, I hope he was recognized and rewarded for that.
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buckwheatINtheCity
Philip V used his cavalry as his personal bodyguard instead of deploying it when the Romans flanked phalanx on the left. The battle was decided then and there. He watched and then retreated as the fighting got too close. His troops on his left did not tighten up their formations but chose to fight in smaller loose formations and they did not have long enough spears to repel the elephants. Truth be told, if the Greeks had longer sarissas on their left flank and few elephants of their own, their left wouldn't have bogged down the way it did, allowing the Roman cavalry to encircle them. This lack of foresight cost the Greeks. Alexander the Great always used his cavalry to maximum effect. This time Roman cavalry caught the Greeks flat footed.
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Philip V used his cavalry as his personal bodyguard instead of deploying it when the Romans flanked phalanx on the left. The battle was decided then and there. He watched and then retreated as the fighting got too close. His troops on his left did not tighten up their formations but chose to fight in smaller loose formations and they did not have long enough spears to repel the elephants. Truth be told, if the Greeks had longer sarissas on their left flank and few elephants of their own, their left wouldn't have bogged down the way it did, allowing the Roman cavalry to encircle them. This lack of foresight cost the Greeks. Alexander the Great always used his cavalry to maximum effect. This time Roman cavalry caught the Greeks flat footed.
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patrickforget5088
You know man the man is one thing but that Calvary that stuff should bring fear into any man 300lb man or 250 lb man it's my skill against his but a what 1, 500 lb horse or 1, 000 lb horse comes charging in on you and hit you you're screwed that is like getting hit buy a mini Cooper going 30 miles and I don't know about you but I'm not Superman that horse hitting you is going to jack you up that's why I New Orleans uses them during trust me that horse under the right man that knows how to control that horse they can downright Jack you seven ways to Sunday they can ping pong you from the front to the back to the back to the front just by controlling their horse Calvary is what would scare the living piss out of me back then
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You know man the man is one thing but that Calvary that stuff should bring fear into any man 300lb man or 250 lb man it's my skill against his but a what 1, 500 lb horse or 1, 000 lb horse comes charging in on you and hit you you're screwed that is like getting hit buy a mini Cooper going 30 miles and I don't know about you but I'm not Superman that horse hitting you is going to jack you up that's why I New Orleans uses them during trust me that horse under the right man that knows how to control that horse they can downright Jack you seven ways to Sunday they can ping pong you from the front to the back to the back to the front just by controlling their horse Calvary is what would scare the living piss out of me back then
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yanniskts7664
An organized and well positioned phalanx could have never lost from the romans. The formation (phalanx) that conquered all of the east known world was not used well by the successors of Alexander who adopted many of the persian tactics and units. Alexander would have never left his phalanx exposed like this and the greatest example is the battle of Gaugamela where Parmenion had the order to turn his units and retreat while fighting if he was outflanked. The final blow was always coming from the cavalry while the phalanx was holding the enemy in position. In Cynoscephalae half of the phalanx is missing and the cavalry is not used as a hammer. In any case the legion proved its adaptability and mobility on the field.
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An organized and well positioned phalanx could have never lost from the romans. The formation (phalanx) that conquered all of the east known world was not used well by the successors of Alexander who adopted many of the persian tactics and units. Alexander would have never left his phalanx exposed like this and the greatest example is the battle of Gaugamela where Parmenion had the order to turn his units and retreat while fighting if he was outflanked. The final blow was always coming from the cavalry while the phalanx was holding the enemy in position. In Cynoscephalae half of the phalanx is missing and the cavalry is not used as a hammer. In any case the legion proved its adaptability and mobility on the field.
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buckwheatINtheCity
The Romans borrowed a page from the Greeks own fighting tactics by deploying war elephants to slow down and disrupt the Greek skirmisher formation, keeping them from rapidly moving forward into the ensuing battle and then counter attacking with cavalry. Their archers and missile throwers had some effect, but it was the cavalry that made the crucial difference. Greek infantry was more than a match for the Romans who needed a flanking maneuver to gain the upper hand.
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The Romans borrowed a page from the Greeks own fighting tactics by deploying war elephants to slow down and disrupt the Greek skirmisher formation, keeping them from rapidly moving forward into the ensuing battle and then counter attacking with cavalry. Their archers and missile throwers had some effect, but it was the cavalry that made the crucial difference. Greek infantry was more than a match for the Romans who needed a flanking maneuver to gain the upper hand.
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listrahtes
Rome didn't invade Macedonia and Greece to protect it's interests. It was clear cut imperialist war to gain ressources from other countries. Rome's allies at the beginning would course the day they aligned with Rome later as Rome took over everything enslaved thousands and destroyed a lot of culture and cities. Rome's Greek war was one of a. brutal hungry abuser.
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Rome didn't invade Macedonia and Greece to protect it's interests. It was clear cut imperialist war to gain ressources from other countries. Rome's allies at the beginning would course the day they aligned with Rome later as Rome took over everything enslaved thousands and destroyed a lot of culture and cities. Rome's Greek war was one of a. brutal hungry abuser.
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patrickforget5088
Makes me wonder if the grass after the all the battles and all the blood on the field it makes me wonder if the grass grew better or if it died off because of all the minerals in the blood because guaranteed battles like that you can smell the copper miles away and then Saturday after it's been sitting out in the sun ya you smell the decomposition
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Makes me wonder if the grass after the all the battles and all the blood on the field it makes me wonder if the grass grew better or if it died off because of all the minerals in the blood because guaranteed battles like that you can smell the copper miles away and then Saturday after it's been sitting out in the sun ya you smell the decomposition
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giannastavros4653
So the Greeks were clearly wining the romans to the main line. The only reason that romans won was the Elephands! We were stronger soldiers and we were killing the romans to the battle line. It was clear that romans will lose. the only reason that romans won is because they flang us. And they flang us because they had the Elephands!
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So the Greeks were clearly wining the romans to the main line. The only reason that romans won was the Elephands! We were stronger soldiers and we were killing the romans to the battle line. It was clear that romans will lose. the only reason that romans won is because they flang us. And they flang us because they had the Elephands!
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paulbamiji7391
I imagine Alexander the Great pulling fistfuls of hair in frustration and anger at the ineptitude of Philip V like so:
Alex: What the f man! Don't you read any history Pin the enemy infantry with the Phalanx and strike his flanks with the calvary. And just where is the rearguard to protect the flanks and rear of the Phalanx!
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I imagine Alexander the Great pulling fistfuls of hair in frustration and anger at the ineptitude of Philip V like so:
Alex: What the f man! Don't you read any history Pin the enemy infantry with the Phalanx and strike his flanks with the calvary. And just where is the rearguard to protect the flanks and rear of the Phalanx!
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VikingRik
Absolutely beautiful, brilliantly well made vid. I like the audio clips from Rome and Alexander, a nice touch.
I still believe Alexander's Macedonian army(after his Indian reforms) would have won but we'll never know.
Please keep up the great work.
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Absolutely beautiful, brilliantly well made vid. I like the audio clips from Rome and Alexander, a nice touch.
I still believe Alexander's Macedonian army(after his Indian reforms) would have won but we'll never know.
Please keep up the great work.
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themadburner
This is Awesome. I'm Native American and never seen anything of the Pueblo Revolt. Would be Awesome to let ppl know of America's 1st Revolution to defy the Expansion of the Monarchy of Spain before Europeans fought Each other.
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This is Awesome. I'm Native American and never seen anything of the Pueblo Revolt. Would be Awesome to let ppl know of America's 1st Revolution to defy the Expansion of the Monarchy of Spain before Europeans fought Each other.
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robertgray1756
Seems like a massive mistake by the Macedonians to allow the Roman's to get to the flanks and Rear of the main phalanx units. Surely the Macedonians could should have set up with better protection to their flanks and rear !
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Seems like a massive mistake by the Macedonians to allow the Roman's to get to the flanks and Rear of the main phalanx units. Surely the Macedonians could should have set up with better protection to their flanks and rear !
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julianmarsh8384
The phalanx in Philip's day was a visible ghost of itself. it was always meant to be incorporated in a combination-or-arms, especially heavy cavalry, which had all but disappeared. or it would have destroyed the Romans.
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The phalanx in Philip's day was a visible ghost of itself. it was always meant to be incorporated in a combination-or-arms, especially heavy cavalry, which had all but disappeared. or it would have destroyed the Romans.
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greekwarrior5373
Im quite sure that if both Greek flanks were on equal line, they would have crushed the Romans with or without elephants. Legionnaires being so much better than Phalangites or even hoplites is Roman propaganda.
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Im quite sure that if both Greek flanks were on equal line, they would have crushed the Romans with or without elephants. Legionnaires being so much better than Phalangites or even hoplites is Roman propaganda.
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TexasTimeLord
When the Roman's turned and attacked the Macedonia rear, Phillip should have sent his personal guard the attack the rear of those Romans instead of just standing there. Then the coward fled.
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When the Roman's turned and attacked the Macedonia rear, Phillip should have sent his personal guard the attack the rear of those Romans instead of just standing there. Then the coward fled.
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mariogenovesi4344
The Roman army was an army of swordsmen, while the Greek armies were armies of spearmen, so the Romans once entered in the phalanx could massacre the Greek troops.
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The Roman army was an army of swordsmen, while the Greek armies were armies of spearmen, so the Romans once entered in the phalanx could massacre the Greek troops.
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rockyvarkhond2269
The role of the phalanx was to pin their opponent for the cavalry to deliver the decisive blow. It could only work as a part of a combined arms combination.
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The role of the phalanx was to pin their opponent for the cavalry to deliver the decisive blow. It could only work as a part of a combined arms combination.
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history
Maybe the world should go back to using swords and spears if they must do war. Smart bombs, missiles, nukes do not give a man/woman a fighting chance in many cases.
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Maybe the world should go back to using swords and spears if they must do war. Smart bombs, missiles, nukes do not give a man/woman a fighting chance in many cases.
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Jay-og3sz
How do you get graphics like that one rome two man. What's your setup I have a 4090 and i9 32 gb ram and rome two still runs woth low frames i don't get it.
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How do you get graphics like that one rome two man. What's your setup I have a 4090 and i9 32 gb ram and rome two still runs woth low frames i don't get it.
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davidhughes8357
Take your time my friend. Your work is certainly worth waiting for. I've been studying Roman military history for over 40 years. I understand!
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Take your time my friend. Your work is certainly worth waiting for. I've been studying Roman military history for over 40 years. I understand!
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johncheetham4607
I'm still a big believer in the fight can be used via the sheild and spear. Depends on how fast you can use your sheild and wall. Jaar.
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I'm still a big believer in the fight can be used via the sheild and spear. Depends on how fast you can use your sheild and wall. Jaar.
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dawidgaza
first of all, you have bad pronunciation. It is not [synossephale] but [kynoskefale] like canus - dog. Dog is canus (like cup not like ssssnake)
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first of all, you have bad pronunciation. It is not [synossephale] but [kynoskefale] like canus - dog. Dog is canus (like cup not like ssssnake)
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jawaidiqbalkhalil
Phallanx looks to be a very effective weapon. How did a soldier manage such a long object and how was it countered by the opposition
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Phallanx looks to be a very effective weapon. How did a soldier manage such a long object and how was it countered by the opposition
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MikeHunt-fo3ow
can u hide in the grass and smear yourself with dirt and blood then come out breathing heavy at the end and pretend you helped
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can u hide in the grass and smear yourself with dirt and blood then come out breathing heavy at the end and pretend you helped
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sinsinsss5216
Rak iso rak iso koe kudune adao tadi karo. Timur Tengah. Raiso raiso koe balik seperti semula koe wes gagal israel kalah.
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Rak iso rak iso koe kudune adao tadi karo. Timur Tengah. Raiso raiso koe balik seperti semula koe wes gagal israel kalah.
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jamesotayza2230
With documentaries like this, who needs Netflix. The legion was more flexible and mobile. compared to the rigid phalanx
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With documentaries like this, who needs Netflix. The legion was more flexible and mobile. compared to the rigid phalanx
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benriordan628
Another great history lesson thanks for sharing 1 of your passions with the rest of us educating people is a noble cause
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Another great history lesson thanks for sharing 1 of your passions with the rest of us educating people is a noble cause
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coreywilliams4678
This was the best recreation of the Battle of Cynoscephalae in the Rome 2 engine that I've seen so far. Good Job!
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This was the best recreation of the Battle of Cynoscephalae in the Rome 2 engine that I've seen so far. Good Job!
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pavelpolyakov5763
I am pretty sure nothing happened like what is depicted here. Still interesting take on what might have happened.
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I am pretty sure nothing happened like what is depicted here. Still interesting take on what might have happened.
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archiesinclair6252
This Macedonian army was not the army of Alexander. Rather it was one of the monster armies of the successors.
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This Macedonian army was not the army of Alexander. Rather it was one of the monster armies of the successors.
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rasmuswittsell10
The game engine is favouring the Macedonian phallanx. The legionaires are being slaughtered. Still looks good.
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The game engine is favouring the Macedonian phallanx. The legionaires are being slaughtered. Still looks good.
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helenaziegler6005
I feel sorry only for the poor horses and elephants, abused and killed for the sake of war by idiot humans.
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I feel sorry only for the poor horses and elephants, abused and killed for the sake of war by idiot humans.
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mmvti
hey, nice episode, the blurring of the background in the shots is a post production effect or can it be done with mods
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hey, nice episode, the blurring of the background in the shots is a post production effect or can it be done with mods
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Johnnyboy1765
These soldiers better be lucky I wasn't around back then stone cold stunner there ass man of the claw.
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These soldiers better be lucky I wasn't around back then stone cold stunner there ass man of the claw.
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