Bohr model: Math and Logic of Derivation
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Date: 2022-12-27
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Comments and reviews: 20
Nathan
Note that with quantum mechanics, the values are all discrete so they all belong to the set of Rational numbers (can be equated to the discrete sequence 0, 1, 2, 3, ) as far as going from one to the next one. This means that the scenarios that create these results are also discrete (completely separate from their nearest neighbors. This result implies that if there is a multiverse interpretation of these rules (Everett Many Worlds interpretation, then each universe of this multiverse is completely separate from all others, too. They are thus not points on a line with no visible boundaries between such points, as in the infinitely larger set of Real numbers. This not only changes the results, but the concepts on which these results are based and is one of the basic differences between quantum physics and all forms of non-quantum physics (Classical, all forms of Relativity, etc.
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Note that with quantum mechanics, the values are all discrete so they all belong to the set of Rational numbers (can be equated to the discrete sequence 0, 1, 2, 3, ) as far as going from one to the next one. This means that the scenarios that create these results are also discrete (completely separate from their nearest neighbors. This result implies that if there is a multiverse interpretation of these rules (Everett Many Worlds interpretation, then each universe of this multiverse is completely separate from all others, too. They are thus not points on a line with no visible boundaries between such points, as in the infinitely larger set of Real numbers. This not only changes the results, but the concepts on which these results are based and is one of the basic differences between quantum physics and all forms of non-quantum physics (Classical, all forms of Relativity, etc.
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ANNA
At 3: 47 you say 'In classical mechanics, the energy of the light produced comes from the energy of the electron, in this theory it comes from the difference of energy of the two electron orbits. This is meaningless, the two ideas are the same. What you mean to say In the classical theory the FREQUENCY of the light produced comes from the FREQUENCY of the electron's orbit, in this theory, it comes from the energy difference of the two orbits divided by hbar. In fact, this is the main difference between Bohr's theory and classical mechanics--- the idea that the frequency of the emitted light is the level spacing. This is also the main point in the derivation of the levels, the level-spacing is equal to the classical frequency. This reconstructs the levels to leading order in hbar.
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At 3: 47 you say 'In classical mechanics, the energy of the light produced comes from the energy of the electron, in this theory it comes from the difference of energy of the two electron orbits. This is meaningless, the two ideas are the same. What you mean to say In the classical theory the FREQUENCY of the light produced comes from the FREQUENCY of the electron's orbit, in this theory, it comes from the energy difference of the two orbits divided by hbar. In fact, this is the main difference between Bohr's theory and classical mechanics--- the idea that the frequency of the emitted light is the level spacing. This is also the main point in the derivation of the levels, the level-spacing is equal to the classical frequency. This reconstructs the levels to leading order in hbar.
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GregChase
It is always welcome, having a complex topic able to be made understandable by someone with the right knowledge - thank you.
It has always puzzled why the electron remains where it is and fails to lose energy and does not fall into the nucleus, because of the proton-electron attraction. The satellites we send to space are powered to remain in orbit; when they are old and lose the energy and the means to correct/re-establish a proper orbit, they fall to Earth and the atmosphere has the final say. Electrons do not have on-board systems to correct/maintain an orbit yet there they are.
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It is always welcome, having a complex topic able to be made understandable by someone with the right knowledge - thank you.
It has always puzzled why the electron remains where it is and fails to lose energy and does not fall into the nucleus, because of the proton-electron attraction. The satellites we send to space are powered to remain in orbit; when they are old and lose the energy and the means to correct/re-establish a proper orbit, they fall to Earth and the atmosphere has the final say. Electrons do not have on-board systems to correct/maintain an orbit yet there they are.
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Nicholas
Great video! Kathy is what happens when Miss Frizzle meets Einstein!
I have intended to do something like this for a while but looks like Kathy is more energetic then me. This issue has bothered me for a while since I read through Bohr's original paper. All of the intro textbooks get this wrong, claiming that Bohr quantized the angular momentum which lead to his result. I think it is enlightening to read the paper and realize that Bohr basically pulled the average angular frequency out of thin air and then concluded that the angular momentum is quantized.
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Great video! Kathy is what happens when Miss Frizzle meets Einstein!
I have intended to do something like this for a while but looks like Kathy is more energetic then me. This issue has bothered me for a while since I read through Bohr's original paper. All of the intro textbooks get this wrong, claiming that Bohr quantized the angular momentum which lead to his result. I think it is enlightening to read the paper and realize that Bohr basically pulled the average angular frequency out of thin air and then concluded that the angular momentum is quantized.
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Mark
First day in freshman chemistry here's the derivation of the equation for the Bohr model of the hydrogen atom. Memorize it. Test to reproduce it next week. It was a tough school and only got harder from there. 4 of the most grueling years of mental work in my life and worth every second of it. This quantum jump comes up over and over again especially in electrical engineering. It's one piece of evidence for a possible additional dimension we can't sense.
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First day in freshman chemistry here's the derivation of the equation for the Bohr model of the hydrogen atom. Memorize it. Test to reproduce it next week. It was a tough school and only got harder from there. 4 of the most grueling years of mental work in my life and worth every second of it. This quantum jump comes up over and over again especially in electrical engineering. It's one piece of evidence for a possible additional dimension we can't sense.
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walidkhier
One of the biggest hurdles that made my mind blocks physics in the colledge was why on earth did these famous ones think about what they were working on. If I knew the historical background, many seemingly non logical aspects of physics would have come clear and smooth. I do not claim I understood everything thing you mentioned, but I really wish I had a teacher like you. Thank you for the video and the explanation included therein.
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One of the biggest hurdles that made my mind blocks physics in the colledge was why on earth did these famous ones think about what they were working on. If I knew the historical background, many seemingly non logical aspects of physics would have come clear and smooth. I do not claim I understood everything thing you mentioned, but I really wish I had a teacher like you. Thank you for the video and the explanation included therein.
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David
An infinitely big Nucleus, that would be a ONE-INFINITY Singularity Universe of Logarithmic Time, in which deterministic pure-math relative-timing ratio-rate quantization is the fundamental self-defining Holographic Principle Reciproction-recirculation manifestation of all physical phenomena, such as been illuminated, made real-time Actuality, so well in this video.
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An infinitely big Nucleus, that would be a ONE-INFINITY Singularity Universe of Logarithmic Time, in which deterministic pure-math relative-timing ratio-rate quantization is the fundamental self-defining Holographic Principle Reciproction-recirculation manifestation of all physical phenomena, such as been illuminated, made real-time Actuality, so well in this video.
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Michael
Im so glad you did the math with historical commentary. Great job! My teacher in Modern Physics did all the same math but without the historical motivation. Showing how the sausage was actually made helps young scientists understand how to approach the scientific process better. Every undergrad physics/engineering major should watch your series. Thanks.
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Im so glad you did the math with historical commentary. Great job! My teacher in Modern Physics did all the same math but without the historical motivation. Showing how the sausage was actually made helps young scientists understand how to approach the scientific process better. Every undergrad physics/engineering major should watch your series. Thanks.
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ANNA
He separated the FREQUENCY of the light from the FREQUENCY of the electrons. Your statement at 5: 24 is simply incorrect. The energy carried off by the light is lost by the electron. The thing that is separated is the frequency. And it's not completely separated, the frequency of the light is the average of the initial and final frequency of the orbit.
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He separated the FREQUENCY of the light from the FREQUENCY of the electrons. Your statement at 5: 24 is simply incorrect. The energy carried off by the light is lost by the electron. The thing that is separated is the frequency. And it's not completely separated, the frequency of the light is the average of the initial and final frequency of the orbit.
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abhishek
I dont like the defenitions being taken from Wekipedia Bcoz we always see its kind of boring for me. Rather make your own ppt type someting. And also if u could add more and more pictures /videos of that scientist that will give the feel flow of the story of yours It would become more interesting to watch
Great video loved watching it
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I dont like the defenitions being taken from Wekipedia Bcoz we always see its kind of boring for me. Rather make your own ppt type someting. And also if u could add more and more pictures /videos of that scientist that will give the feel flow of the story of yours It would become more interesting to watch
Great video loved watching it
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Cran
I love these videos! History provides so much interesting context. One point on this one however. I would use the word Revolving rather than Rotating in assumption 5 b. The acceleration that was expected to produce classical radiation is centripetal -- like a cyclotron. Rotation implies spin which wasn't a consideration in Bohr's model.
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I love these videos! History provides so much interesting context. One point on this one however. I would use the word Revolving rather than Rotating in assumption 5 b. The acceleration that was expected to produce classical radiation is centripetal -- like a cyclotron. Rotation implies spin which wasn't a consideration in Bohr's model.
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Ray
Thank you for all the time you put into this explanation, truly clear and effective.
Of all Copenaghen School bunch of Scientists, in my opinion, Bohr was the most profound in the inception of new scientific objects. His ability to match elements from different sector of Science, was unmatched as it was unique.
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Thank you for all the time you put into this explanation, truly clear and effective.
Of all Copenaghen School bunch of Scientists, in my opinion, Bohr was the most profound in the inception of new scientific objects. His ability to match elements from different sector of Science, was unmatched as it was unique.
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Skeltek
Funny thing, if you derive such relations purely geometrical and explain it to some people in sentences instead of formula, many people even teachers and professors think its too far fetched. Only the experimental values equaling the calculated formula values convince people it to be a potentially valid theory.
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Funny thing, if you derive such relations purely geometrical and explain it to some people in sentences instead of formula, many people even teachers and professors think its too far fetched. Only the experimental values equaling the calculated formula values convince people it to be a potentially valid theory.
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Giovanni
Great video. As an update, some inventors under patent have demonstrated electron states of 1/2 and 1/3 electron orbital states. Some physicists claim this is not possible even though it works. We have to break out of the faulty disinformation Einsteinian physic theories once and for all!
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Great video. As an update, some inventors under patent have demonstrated electron states of 1/2 and 1/3 electron orbital states. Some physicists claim this is not possible even though it works. We have to break out of the faulty disinformation Einsteinian physic theories once and for all!
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Peter
Back in 1965 or 66, at the beginning of a chemistry course, we were introduced to the Bohr model. I didn't understand why at the time since the mini-solar system model of atoms was out of fashion. Only now with your videos do I realize what an amazing achievement it was.
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Back in 1965 or 66, at the beginning of a chemistry course, we were introduced to the Bohr model. I didn't understand why at the time since the mini-solar system model of atoms was out of fashion. Only now with your videos do I realize what an amazing achievement it was.
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Ned
Our freshman chemistry professor did this derivation for us many years ago. It really struck home to the class the amazing feat that a theoretician could derive the experimentally determined Rydberg constant. A well-deserved Nobel.
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Our freshman chemistry professor did this derivation for us many years ago. It really struck home to the class the amazing feat that a theoretician could derive the experimentally determined Rydberg constant. A well-deserved Nobel.
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Allan
Two physicists meet in the hallway.
Quantum physicist: Whats up with your area?
Classical physicist: Negative Del dot g, like always. Whats new with you?
Quantum physicist: E over h, as usual.
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Two physicists meet in the hallway.
Quantum physicist: Whats up with your area?
Classical physicist: Negative Del dot g, like always. Whats new with you?
Quantum physicist: E over h, as usual.
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Dave
Astonishing.
What must it have been like to be Bohr when he first did these relatively simple calculations, to pull the curtains back a little more on the eternal, foundational processes of reality?
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Astonishing.
What must it have been like to be Bohr when he first did these relatively simple calculations, to pull the curtains back a little more on the eternal, foundational processes of reality?
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KEB129
This is how science works! If the data does not correspond with the theory, then you must change the theory. Some scientists (climate scientists) today just change the data to fit their theory!
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This is how science works! If the data does not correspond with the theory, then you must change the theory. Some scientists (climate scientists) today just change the data to fit their theory!
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Andrs
I find it rather annoying when those girls sing about electricity. How about you put up beefheart's Electricity next time, to scare off the newcomers? Or do it for me, whichever you like
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I find it rather annoying when those girls sing about electricity. How about you put up beefheart's Electricity next time, to scare off the newcomers? Or do it for me, whichever you like
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