Stop Doing Chest Flys - I'm Begging You!
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Date: 2022-04-22
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Comments and reviews: 10
Ben
Point 1: over extension of the shoulder capsule - firstly, this exercise is targeting straight arm strength by exercising the brachialis chain at end range. This is why the exercise should be performed with straight arms and not semi straight. Skills that require this include the swallow and back lever. If you are compromising your shoulder capsule, reduce your weights.
Point 2: Cant lift heavy - this is irrelevant. The distance of the weight from the lever increases the resisting forces on the muscles. The muscles don't know or care what number is written on the dumbbell, what matters is the resisting force. Its only your ego that is effected by not being able to perform the exercise with a heavy ass weight.
Point 3: Limited contraction of the pecs - this point is valid if your goal is to achieve full contraction of the pecs. The fact is, whilst this exercise is used as a supplementary pectoral isolation exercise, it is primarily a brachialis chain exercise. You are simply using a wrench to hammer a nail. The exercise itself is very effective at what it is SUPPOSED to be used for.
Point 4: doesn't increase stretch on pecs - true but it is not supposed to. This exercise is for shoulder mobility, and elbow solidity. Whilst it is not directly increasing the stretch on the pecs, it is still contributing to the stretch of the mobility impeding muscles of the shoulder joint.
Rather than -trying to bury the exercise- wouldn't it be better to just point out what the skill is really aimed at rather than blaming the wrench for being useless because it didn't drive the nail in?
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Point 1: over extension of the shoulder capsule - firstly, this exercise is targeting straight arm strength by exercising the brachialis chain at end range. This is why the exercise should be performed with straight arms and not semi straight. Skills that require this include the swallow and back lever. If you are compromising your shoulder capsule, reduce your weights.
Point 2: Cant lift heavy - this is irrelevant. The distance of the weight from the lever increases the resisting forces on the muscles. The muscles don't know or care what number is written on the dumbbell, what matters is the resisting force. Its only your ego that is effected by not being able to perform the exercise with a heavy ass weight.
Point 3: Limited contraction of the pecs - this point is valid if your goal is to achieve full contraction of the pecs. The fact is, whilst this exercise is used as a supplementary pectoral isolation exercise, it is primarily a brachialis chain exercise. You are simply using a wrench to hammer a nail. The exercise itself is very effective at what it is SUPPOSED to be used for.
Point 4: doesn't increase stretch on pecs - true but it is not supposed to. This exercise is for shoulder mobility, and elbow solidity. Whilst it is not directly increasing the stretch on the pecs, it is still contributing to the stretch of the mobility impeding muscles of the shoulder joint.
Rather than -trying to bury the exercise- wouldn't it be better to just point out what the skill is really aimed at rather than blaming the wrench for being useless because it didn't drive the nail in?
reply
Beorn
I like cable flys, because I can really stretch the pecs out, I get weight throughout the motion, I can hold the handles in a contracted position for a couple of seconds, and I can change the angle of the pull at will. I can do inclines and declines on it, and can vary it from rep to rep. I always set the cable height to be in about the vertical center of my chest. When I use dumbbells (and about half the time I do, I carefully go for the best stretch I can safely do in the bottom position, and stop short of bringing the weights direct over my chest, holding this position for a moment and tensing my chest. That keeps weight on the pecs. I also need to make sure I have enough curve in the elbow and that the weights are below my shoulder line. I found flys and benches hurt my rotator cuffs instead of working the pecs unless I keep the weight near the vertical center of my chest, instead of up near the shoulders. My hands should never go directly out to the sides of my shoulders, thus taking the weight and transferring it to my shoulders. I like to switch from free weights to cables and back on many exercises to hit the muscles in different ways. If my shoulder joints don't feel right, my form is too far up to the top of the pecs.
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I like cable flys, because I can really stretch the pecs out, I get weight throughout the motion, I can hold the handles in a contracted position for a couple of seconds, and I can change the angle of the pull at will. I can do inclines and declines on it, and can vary it from rep to rep. I always set the cable height to be in about the vertical center of my chest. When I use dumbbells (and about half the time I do, I carefully go for the best stretch I can safely do in the bottom position, and stop short of bringing the weights direct over my chest, holding this position for a moment and tensing my chest. That keeps weight on the pecs. I also need to make sure I have enough curve in the elbow and that the weights are below my shoulder line. I found flys and benches hurt my rotator cuffs instead of working the pecs unless I keep the weight near the vertical center of my chest, instead of up near the shoulders. My hands should never go directly out to the sides of my shoulders, thus taking the weight and transferring it to my shoulders. I like to switch from free weights to cables and back on many exercises to hit the muscles in different ways. If my shoulder joints don't feel right, my form is too far up to the top of the pecs.
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Mythical
When performing a Pectoralis Fly Exercise and horizontally extend the shoulders and upper extremity past the imaginary perpendicular line extending out from the glenohumeral articulation, you tighten the Coracobrachialis and Biceps Brachii muscle tendons. The Biceps tendon long head originates from the supraglenoid tubercle of the scapulae in close proximity to an attachment site of the glenoid labrum on the rim of the glenoid fossa (Socket into which the humeral head sits, and is placed under longitudinal stress as one extends the shoulder past perpendicular and can tear the glenoid labrum off of the rim, which has very serious detrimental effects on joint stability, kinesiology, and biomechanics. Furthermore the anterior displacement of the head of the humerus with regards to the glenoid fossa or socket of the shoulder, can stretch and tear the anterior capsule with resulting predisposition to recurring shoulder subluxations or dislocations, the formation of Bankart lesions and Hill-Sachs deformities, further affecting joint structural integrity and kinesiology
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When performing a Pectoralis Fly Exercise and horizontally extend the shoulders and upper extremity past the imaginary perpendicular line extending out from the glenohumeral articulation, you tighten the Coracobrachialis and Biceps Brachii muscle tendons. The Biceps tendon long head originates from the supraglenoid tubercle of the scapulae in close proximity to an attachment site of the glenoid labrum on the rim of the glenoid fossa (Socket into which the humeral head sits, and is placed under longitudinal stress as one extends the shoulder past perpendicular and can tear the glenoid labrum off of the rim, which has very serious detrimental effects on joint stability, kinesiology, and biomechanics. Furthermore the anterior displacement of the head of the humerus with regards to the glenoid fossa or socket of the shoulder, can stretch and tear the anterior capsule with resulting predisposition to recurring shoulder subluxations or dislocations, the formation of Bankart lesions and Hill-Sachs deformities, further affecting joint structural integrity and kinesiology
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davidjustdavid
-ATHLEAN-X This video has just saved me, I am very new to the gym and tonight I was doing dumbell flys on a flat bench, now I feel I wasted my time but with this video I will be using the cable for fly next time I go in. The gym has saved my life tbh, I was sitting at home drinking at night, mourning the loss of my son to suicide 6 months ago and just having somewhere and something to do in the night is literally saving my life. I won't stop now not ever. These kind of videos are really helping me correct things for the better. Thank you so much.
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-ATHLEAN-X This video has just saved me, I am very new to the gym and tonight I was doing dumbell flys on a flat bench, now I feel I wasted my time but with this video I will be using the cable for fly next time I go in. The gym has saved my life tbh, I was sitting at home drinking at night, mourning the loss of my son to suicide 6 months ago and just having somewhere and something to do in the night is literally saving my life. I won't stop now not ever. These kind of videos are really helping me correct things for the better. Thank you so much.
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Gambarizing
No wonder my shoulders hurt when I do bench and floor flys. I've tried lowering the weight, adjusting my arm position and height, but it still does a number on my shoulders. I'm currently only able to work out at home and all I have is a dumbbell and barbell set. Once I can get to the gym on a regular basis, I'm adding cable flys to my regiment. I think the cables and standing position takes much of the stress off the shoulders and arms. Plus, it seems like the bodybuilders with the most impressive chests regularly use cable flys.
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No wonder my shoulders hurt when I do bench and floor flys. I've tried lowering the weight, adjusting my arm position and height, but it still does a number on my shoulders. I'm currently only able to work out at home and all I have is a dumbbell and barbell set. Once I can get to the gym on a regular basis, I'm adding cable flys to my regiment. I think the cables and standing position takes much of the stress off the shoulders and arms. Plus, it seems like the bodybuilders with the most impressive chests regularly use cable flys.
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N---jman
how many of you guys are Training? Jeff. come out with so much great stuff and problems about work out to get fit.
The flyers are bad and i only use band giv me much more than normal flyers on bench.
it easy to point finger at some one. But he is a Great Dude and thx for all the great wisdom. and now giv me 2 set off 10 reps with 25 kg band flyvers.
and then 2 set normal flyvers with 25 kg. see what diffrent there is. ( sorry for my bad engelish)
Best regards from Denmark
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how many of you guys are Training? Jeff. come out with so much great stuff and problems about work out to get fit.
The flyers are bad and i only use band giv me much more than normal flyers on bench.
it easy to point finger at some one. But he is a Great Dude and thx for all the great wisdom. and now giv me 2 set off 10 reps with 25 kg band flyvers.
and then 2 set normal flyvers with 25 kg. see what diffrent there is. ( sorry for my bad engelish)
Best regards from Denmark
reply
nathan
Where does this leave discus throwers though? When throwing, the arm is in a hyperextended position and accelerated maximally to just anterior of neutral before the discus is released. We train with fly's so that we can mimic this movement. We need a powerful coracobrachialis along with our pec's. Will doing these alternative exercises that concentrate on maximal contraction of our pec's and not mimic the arm movement of the throw really help discus throwers?
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Where does this leave discus throwers though? When throwing, the arm is in a hyperextended position and accelerated maximally to just anterior of neutral before the discus is released. We train with fly's so that we can mimic this movement. We need a powerful coracobrachialis along with our pec's. Will doing these alternative exercises that concentrate on maximal contraction of our pec's and not mimic the arm movement of the throw really help discus throwers?
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Jeff
I agree with you 100% about putting stress on your arms, but I-m curious when your standing and that means your grounded, is it reducing the effect of the exercise because now you have your lower body engaged in the exercise? Like a batter who winds up, this is similar to that.
Laying down, you are raising the weights completely with your upper body, mostly using the arms. I am an amateur, so I ask this with sincerity!
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I agree with you 100% about putting stress on your arms, but I-m curious when your standing and that means your grounded, is it reducing the effect of the exercise because now you have your lower body engaged in the exercise? Like a batter who winds up, this is similar to that.
Laying down, you are raising the weights completely with your upper body, mostly using the arms. I am an amateur, so I ask this with sincerity!
reply
Full
Chest flys along with chest press are the best exercises for chest muscle gains. You need to learn how to properly do them and practice starting with small weight and work your way up. I will say maximum average of 65lbs if you are strong and developed already a good big chest. Many people don-t have the strength to do them, anatomy or just don-t know how to do them (this is not for everyone.
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Chest flys along with chest press are the best exercises for chest muscle gains. You need to learn how to properly do them and practice starting with small weight and work your way up. I will say maximum average of 65lbs if you are strong and developed already a good big chest. Many people don-t have the strength to do them, anatomy or just don-t know how to do them (this is not for everyone.
reply
A-S
Not all people have these machines in their houses, i have one dumbell, the only way i had to do bench press unilateral with one dumbell hand, but i cant use that kind of machines, so maybe u can do a video with all single unilateral dumbell raises for delts, chest, biceps and triceps, a plus its corrective, aprecciate a lot your vids, i see everyday anyway, help me a lot.
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Not all people have these machines in their houses, i have one dumbell, the only way i had to do bench press unilateral with one dumbell hand, but i cant use that kind of machines, so maybe u can do a video with all single unilateral dumbell raises for delts, chest, biceps and triceps, a plus its corrective, aprecciate a lot your vids, i see everyday anyway, help me a lot.
reply
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