PCIE is the Future, The Discord Issue, & You'll Own Nothing Discussion w/ Wendell of Level1 Techs
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Date: 2023-12-22
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Comments and reviews: 20
YRR_J
I'm so happy to see these things discussed. Finding stuff and getting to a meaningful conversations in the web is now really hard. Maybe it is also that before the process of signing up to a forum didn't feel like much. When now I'm like I don't want anyone to get any access to my data!
And as a person who dislikes anything smart app subscription , cloud and to some extent touch sceen , the whole world seems like I don't even recognize it anymore. Now I spent so much time to click all the legitimate interest -options off while surfing that it's like a job to check every cookie setting. It's like why anyone else is not bothered by things that I despise? I guess they just go with the flow, use mobile a lot and don't care about some small annoyances.
And when taking the context to other stuff it feels like every small great or bad mechanical or electro-mechanical aspect of everyday items are overshadowed by the software that is lacking options/features, is overly streamlined and controlled via some cloud/OTA/wireless crap by some company that optimizes everything to the level where people are just at the verge of changing brands. Like taking away features, stopping support, turning a working piece of thing to a useless brick because the servers are put down as there's not enough revenue.
If I would ever buy a viewing license to a show or a movie with a monthly fee, I would want to know exactly how long the license will last, if I can have my own copy that is viewable off-line (without some proprietary software that'll eventually seize to work, or is changed to a paid thing).
Rant rant rant
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I'm so happy to see these things discussed. Finding stuff and getting to a meaningful conversations in the web is now really hard. Maybe it is also that before the process of signing up to a forum didn't feel like much. When now I'm like I don't want anyone to get any access to my data!
And as a person who dislikes anything smart app subscription , cloud and to some extent touch sceen , the whole world seems like I don't even recognize it anymore. Now I spent so much time to click all the legitimate interest -options off while surfing that it's like a job to check every cookie setting. It's like why anyone else is not bothered by things that I despise? I guess they just go with the flow, use mobile a lot and don't care about some small annoyances.
And when taking the context to other stuff it feels like every small great or bad mechanical or electro-mechanical aspect of everyday items are overshadowed by the software that is lacking options/features, is overly streamlined and controlled via some cloud/OTA/wireless crap by some company that optimizes everything to the level where people are just at the verge of changing brands. Like taking away features, stopping support, turning a working piece of thing to a useless brick because the servers are put down as there's not enough revenue.
If I would ever buy a viewing license to a show or a movie with a monthly fee, I would want to know exactly how long the license will last, if I can have my own copy that is viewable off-line (without some proprietary software that'll eventually seize to work, or is changed to a paid thing).
Rant rant rant
reply
gamersnexus
Honestly there needs to be huge push in terms of online digital consumer protection laws!
We need protections that effectively make it illegal for any company selling any form of digital content that is marketed and sold for a 1 time fee that carry a ToS agreement that through lawyer written mumbo jumbo abridge rights, and already standing laws to be made against the law.
When you buy digital content , being sold as a fully featured product for a 1 time fee for that base product , you should under law , own THE COPY of that digital content.
Furthermore any language in any ToS agreement that essentially makes it legal for a company to effectively steal that back from you at any given time through removing access to deleting it from your personal digital libraries becaues it renders you a mere licensed user, should be made 100% illegal and carry with it stiff fines if broken.
Fines that say ; charge a company a percentage of their yearly net profit. No more of these fines for billion dollar corporations that are so small they feel what they are doing is legal for a monetary price they can afford if need be .
We have to get a handle on this for real.
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Honestly there needs to be huge push in terms of online digital consumer protection laws!
We need protections that effectively make it illegal for any company selling any form of digital content that is marketed and sold for a 1 time fee that carry a ToS agreement that through lawyer written mumbo jumbo abridge rights, and already standing laws to be made against the law.
When you buy digital content , being sold as a fully featured product for a 1 time fee for that base product , you should under law , own THE COPY of that digital content.
Furthermore any language in any ToS agreement that essentially makes it legal for a company to effectively steal that back from you at any given time through removing access to deleting it from your personal digital libraries becaues it renders you a mere licensed user, should be made 100% illegal and carry with it stiff fines if broken.
Fines that say ; charge a company a percentage of their yearly net profit. No more of these fines for billion dollar corporations that are so small they feel what they are doing is legal for a monetary price they can afford if need be .
We have to get a handle on this for real.
reply
CheapSushi
Wendell, is it possible to bring back Beowulf clusters in an easier way now in 2023 vs a few years ago? Where you can have fairly random cheap systems connect and act like one? When you go back far enough things like MPI and MOSIX and stuff come up but it feels so dated. And anything more recent, talks more about it from a virtualization viewpoint (which talks about similar aspects of sharing resources but not in the way I mean) or a grid or distributed computing point of view. But how about memory sharing from CPU to CPU on two different physical machines without proprietary enterprise software locked away, so task manager on one screen shows all the CPUs and is NUMA aware, like it knows the other CPU is further away, so higher latency but will move things if needed? Aside from latency, what's stopping us regular homelabbers from connecting 2 or 3 or 4 computers into one massive one from a user perspective that isn't just storage based? Anytime I see this brought up on forums, it's not at all what people are actually wanting to do.
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Wendell, is it possible to bring back Beowulf clusters in an easier way now in 2023 vs a few years ago? Where you can have fairly random cheap systems connect and act like one? When you go back far enough things like MPI and MOSIX and stuff come up but it feels so dated. And anything more recent, talks more about it from a virtualization viewpoint (which talks about similar aspects of sharing resources but not in the way I mean) or a grid or distributed computing point of view. But how about memory sharing from CPU to CPU on two different physical machines without proprietary enterprise software locked away, so task manager on one screen shows all the CPUs and is NUMA aware, like it knows the other CPU is further away, so higher latency but will move things if needed? Aside from latency, what's stopping us regular homelabbers from connecting 2 or 3 or 4 computers into one massive one from a user perspective that isn't just storage based? Anytime I see this brought up on forums, it's not at all what people are actually wanting to do.
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Bareego
One thing I don't uderstand, if there are so many issues with signal degradation using regular cables (and I bet they charge a lot for one of those cables), why don't they use fiber instead ? I understand that you'd have to add extra hardware for the signal generation and reception, but if it's for a server setup, wouldn't signal integrity and speed trump the extra hardware cost ? Also you could make the cable a lot longer. What we really need is a high speed USB style fiber standard. Maybe eventually PCIE could be completely moved to fiber as soon as you connect something to the board either in a socket or through a cable. If you also need power delivery just add a pair of thin copper wires.
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One thing I don't uderstand, if there are so many issues with signal degradation using regular cables (and I bet they charge a lot for one of those cables), why don't they use fiber instead ? I understand that you'd have to add extra hardware for the signal generation and reception, but if it's for a server setup, wouldn't signal integrity and speed trump the extra hardware cost ? Also you could make the cable a lot longer. What we really need is a high speed USB style fiber standard. Maybe eventually PCIE could be completely moved to fiber as soon as you connect something to the board either in a socket or through a cable. If you also need power delivery just add a pair of thin copper wires.
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renevdk4387
Imagine a world where you:
- spend 2000 on a phone
- disagree with terms & conditions (collecting and selling your data)
- can t use device for intended purpose
Oh, wait We ve all collectively decided that s okay. Nothing to hide , right?
Eye tracking.
Finger placement.
Location.
Name.
Biometric data.
Steps you ve taken today.
Your heartbeat.
Your usage patterns.
Your screentime.
Your pictures. Yes, also the pictures you have in a hidden folder.
Oh, and the obvious one: yes, your device IS listening to you.
You gave them permission. You ve agreed to this. Several times, with every new update.
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Imagine a world where you:
- spend 2000 on a phone
- disagree with terms & conditions (collecting and selling your data)
- can t use device for intended purpose
Oh, wait We ve all collectively decided that s okay. Nothing to hide , right?
Eye tracking.
Finger placement.
Location.
Name.
Biometric data.
Steps you ve taken today.
Your heartbeat.
Your usage patterns.
Your screentime.
Your pictures. Yes, also the pictures you have in a hidden folder.
Oh, and the obvious one: yes, your device IS listening to you.
You gave them permission. You ve agreed to this. Several times, with every new update.
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saltyowl3229
Level1Techs as a vGPU unlock user, who noticed it initially thanks to your videos/forum, I can confirm it is awesome. Cool is an understatement.
Yeah there are issues with the latest drivers, and disguising a 1080ti as a virtual RTX card does have some performance loss, it is still AMAZING to have a fully functional Hypervisor OS WITH acceleration, and, say, 3 VMs each with a 2GB offshoot of the card. Or just one 8GB for a gaming VM set to look like a stadia server for games.
Didn t get it WORKING from your videos, but they guys who make it helped me out :) amazing stuff
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Level1Techs as a vGPU unlock user, who noticed it initially thanks to your videos/forum, I can confirm it is awesome. Cool is an understatement.
Yeah there are issues with the latest drivers, and disguising a 1080ti as a virtual RTX card does have some performance loss, it is still AMAZING to have a fully functional Hypervisor OS WITH acceleration, and, say, 3 VMs each with a 2GB offshoot of the card. Or just one 8GB for a gaming VM set to look like a stadia server for games.
Didn t get it WORKING from your videos, but they guys who make it helped me out :) amazing stuff
reply
PropaneWP
I'm just using my Playstation for watching Netflix these days. But even then, I see how consumer choice is being dismantled. When I open the media streaming menu, it's not configured to my benefit, it's configured so that whatever streaming service is currently paying Sony the most is being shown first.
I'm not the customer anymore. The advertiser is the customer, and I am the product being sold. Same thing with Windows. And they want to strip off even more control by not letting people own anything. And I dread to imagine what that will end up looking like.
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I'm just using my Playstation for watching Netflix these days. But even then, I see how consumer choice is being dismantled. When I open the media streaming menu, it's not configured to my benefit, it's configured so that whatever streaming service is currently paying Sony the most is being shown first.
I'm not the customer anymore. The advertiser is the customer, and I am the product being sold. Same thing with Windows. And they want to strip off even more control by not letting people own anything. And I dread to imagine what that will end up looking like.
reply
intenseevils
Sony is the market funder for putting DRM at every layer between a processor and a screen and speaker. There is no reason a computer be it a PC or phone or TVbox to not be able to run video and audio provided they are performant enough which they often are. Instead Widevine, HDCP, Dolby etc have been restricting innovation on media playback. I regret buying a smartTV and AVR only to see it get obsolete in standards in front of my eyes when Netflix and other streaming services began downscaling 4K content I purchased to 720p 2.0 audio.
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Sony is the market funder for putting DRM at every layer between a processor and a screen and speaker. There is no reason a computer be it a PC or phone or TVbox to not be able to run video and audio provided they are performant enough which they often are. Instead Widevine, HDCP, Dolby etc have been restricting innovation on media playback. I regret buying a smartTV and AVR only to see it get obsolete in standards in front of my eyes when Netflix and other streaming services began downscaling 4K content I purchased to 720p 2.0 audio.
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3800S1
Funny thing, well actually a good thing. A forum I am very active on for well over a decade has had it's biggest traffic and click though and general use this year, and a lot of it has come down to exactly this, curated and searchable information without the BS. So many sites like FB and other platform groups are a cluster f%%k with bad info with any of the go info lost to the sands of time due to no way to search them.
Forums have made a bit of a comeback in the last year or two and it's great!
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Funny thing, well actually a good thing. A forum I am very active on for well over a decade has had it's biggest traffic and click though and general use this year, and a lot of it has come down to exactly this, curated and searchable information without the BS. So many sites like FB and other platform groups are a cluster f%%k with bad info with any of the go info lost to the sands of time due to no way to search them.
Forums have made a bit of a comeback in the last year or two and it's great!
reply
Ferdinand208
I tried gaming with 64GB of ram. I thought it would feel different from 16GB. The read cache of Task Manager was full so the whole machine was reading from RAM. But I found no difference. Going from Zen2 to RaptorLake was a bigger difference.
So I would love a video researching if enormous amounts of ram make the system and games feel better. So far with my limited amount of testing I felt no difference. So at this moment I wouldn't pay an extra 250-350 to double the amount of ram.
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I tried gaming with 64GB of ram. I thought it would feel different from 16GB. The read cache of Task Manager was full so the whole machine was reading from RAM. But I found no difference. Going from Zen2 to RaptorLake was a bigger difference.
So I would love a video researching if enormous amounts of ram make the system and games feel better. So far with my limited amount of testing I felt no difference. So at this moment I wouldn't pay an extra 250-350 to double the amount of ram.
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skedaritou8138
can you put a BIG BIG text that says GEN 3 4 AND 5 PCI EXPRESS 4.0 because i have 13 minutes onto the video and now realize what you are talking about. This blew my mind, i thougth the PCI was all the same, but on a different form factor. My computer is happy running a PCI 2.0 16X and you are telling me we are on PCI 6????.I was a monkey whit a bananam,I was soo happy whit my ignorance , ignorance is bliss, and was truly extasic, now i truly see we are still on the rock age
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can you put a BIG BIG text that says GEN 3 4 AND 5 PCI EXPRESS 4.0 because i have 13 minutes onto the video and now realize what you are talking about. This blew my mind, i thougth the PCI was all the same, but on a different form factor. My computer is happy running a PCI 2.0 16X and you are telling me we are on PCI 6????.I was a monkey whit a bananam,I was soo happy whit my ignorance , ignorance is bliss, and was truly extasic, now i truly see we are still on the rock age
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hgbugalou
Random I/O latency and nand cell aging is why I opted to use a pcie3 Intel optane drive as my OS and daily driver program drive despite having a pcie5 nvme slot on my motherboard. I use a nand ssd for large games and such as a secondary drive, but the enterprise optane drive has been so much more consistent and always fast for my system drive. It's a shame Intel discontinued them because they have major advantages, even today.
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Random I/O latency and nand cell aging is why I opted to use a pcie3 Intel optane drive as my OS and daily driver program drive despite having a pcie5 nvme slot on my motherboard. I use a nand ssd for large games and such as a secondary drive, but the enterprise optane drive has been so much more consistent and always fast for my system drive. It's a shame Intel discontinued them because they have major advantages, even today.
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gamersnexus
I could see a half way point where Nvidia builds virtualization limits in some drivers. That would allow easy ways for a local Gforce now but also insure that they make some money. xx90 series can do 4 streams, xx80 and xx70 can do 2, while xx60 and lower can't. They would get away with it too because offering an easy option, although not the best option, is going to stop most of the users that would hack the solution.
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I could see a half way point where Nvidia builds virtualization limits in some drivers. That would allow easy ways for a local Gforce now but also insure that they make some money. xx90 series can do 4 streams, xx80 and xx70 can do 2, while xx60 and lower can't. They would get away with it too because offering an easy option, although not the best option, is going to stop most of the users that would hack the solution.
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SakuraShuuichi
the whole snake oil thing has lost its context, snake oil was and is still used medicinally, and it actually works for some things. the snake oil salesman thing came about from people selling fake snake oil, this is where the negative connotation comes from. just a ranom thing that annoys me. anyway always enjoy your content keep up the goo work. You know it is going to be fun when Wenell shows up.
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the whole snake oil thing has lost its context, snake oil was and is still used medicinally, and it actually works for some things. the snake oil salesman thing came about from people selling fake snake oil, this is where the negative connotation comes from. just a ranom thing that annoys me. anyway always enjoy your content keep up the goo work. You know it is going to be fun when Wenell shows up.
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ericneo2
You can test latency with webservers and databases quite well. The user can feel and see the difference in a page being delivered in 7000ms and 120ms. Now throw in 100-200 active users and you really begin to see the benefits and realizing you don't want to be working with a database or language that requires you manage all this manually and suddenly you are looking at ZFS to manage it for you from RAM.
reply
You can test latency with webservers and databases quite well. The user can feel and see the difference in a page being delivered in 7000ms and 120ms. Now throw in 100-200 active users and you really begin to see the benefits and realizing you don't want to be working with a database or language that requires you manage all this manually and suddenly you are looking at ZFS to manage it for you from RAM.
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PeteTheL337
There is absolutely nothing wrong with being a conspiracy theorist. All things start as a theory to be proven and as long as we remember that and keep a civil tone there won't be a problem with it. Sadly we live in an age where a lot of theories are proven true almost on a daily basis so it's easy to get caught up in it an just default to all theories must be true which they of cause aren't.
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There is absolutely nothing wrong with being a conspiracy theorist. All things start as a theory to be proven and as long as we remember that and keep a civil tone there won't be a problem with it. Sadly we live in an age where a lot of theories are proven true almost on a daily basis so it's easy to get caught up in it an just default to all theories must be true which they of cause aren't.
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iceManSwag
I remember I got a 500w PSU in like the year 2000 but the shop didn't understand me correctly & got me the server version of the PSU with 24pins to the motherboard. Anyway I went back to the shop & they sold me a Chinese adapter to go from server to home workstation motherboard . Yeah its nice to see how server technology eventually comes to our homes.
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I remember I got a 500w PSU in like the year 2000 but the shop didn't understand me correctly & got me the server version of the PSU with 24pins to the motherboard. Anyway I went back to the shop & they sold me a Chinese adapter to go from server to home workstation motherboard . Yeah its nice to see how server technology eventually comes to our homes.
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cyberrb25
The thing about PCIe is that, without stuff like routers and switches, you'll need enough PCIe ports AND connect each computer to each other. And then you have a bunch of cables.
I guess on servers it will work, but also inside the racks and in conjunction, not as the external thing. And iirc, PCIe still doesn't work for as long as Ethernet does.
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The thing about PCIe is that, without stuff like routers and switches, you'll need enough PCIe ports AND connect each computer to each other. And then you have a bunch of cables.
I guess on servers it will work, but also inside the racks and in conjunction, not as the external thing. And iirc, PCIe still doesn't work for as long as Ethernet does.
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gamersnexus
I don t really see the point of having a computer somewhere that the family access. You can build a silent enough computer that it s no problem to have it right next to you. I remember when all offices were replacing computers with thin clients a decade ago and then it didn t take long before we went back to having a desktop for each person again.
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I don t really see the point of having a computer somewhere that the family access. You can build a silent enough computer that it s no problem to have it right next to you. I remember when all offices were replacing computers with thin clients a decade ago and then it didn t take long before we went back to having a desktop for each person again.
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samuelrave6400
Since a couple of months I solely started using enterprice SSD's for my backups! I've had a couple of consumer grade SSD's fail on me in a short period, so I don't trust m anymore for important data that I don't want to lose. Enterprise SSD's are way more expensive, but have a lot higher durability, so worth it for me, for that task
reply
Since a couple of months I solely started using enterprice SSD's for my backups! I've had a couple of consumer grade SSD's fail on me in a short period, so I don't trust m anymore for important data that I don't want to lose. Enterprise SSD's are way more expensive, but have a lot higher durability, so worth it for me, for that task
reply
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