HW News - Important GN / LTT Changes, GPU Price Drops, Intel Arc GPU Availability
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Date: 2022-08-25
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Comments and reviews: 14
necauqua
I missed out on the whole backpack story and randomly am watching this video.
You say that the actual problem you had with their backpack is that their implicit claims did not match what was in the final explicit warranty that they released.
But didn't they release the explicit warranty BECAUSE there was a problem?? The problem being the lack of the warranty, I presume, which you say was not the problem. I see like a logical error here? I don't get it.
Also I watched some clips from that Linus stream and how he's not right?
About the warranty being pretty much a meaningless piece of paper since they can weasel out of everything if they wanted to but had warranty, and they will do good - if they wanted to - without one.
At least I can see that with something like a backpack which does not have electronic parts that are hard to verify will not fail randomly soon.
As far as I understood the initial fuss was about them not having a warranty and him then responding by saying that, and then they had to quickly put up some default shitty warranty, because people really wanted them to - because people believe in useless papers - makes sense I guess, even though in reality he's right.
Also for the comment about him saying that these 'trust me bro' shirts sold very well I see that he was talking about popularity of the t-shirt, and thus the statement that it represents, and not the money necessarily - seemed weird for you to focus on that, higlighting his 'greed' I guess. And I don't like/support the shirt, yeah it was cringe and petty, I wouldn't have done that if I was him.
The whole 'we will be treating them like any other company' taking up half of the video is also kind of weird because why won't you treat them like any other company in the first place? To me, this sounds a lot like 'we're punishing you for this by not being biased towards you anymore', thats like.. meh? So before that your integrity was not that good? Now begs the question of how many more 'friends' do you have that did not yet make bad decisions?
idk, don't want this to feel like I'm a huge ltt fanboy crying at you putting down Linus, but this was my criticism of what was said in this particular video, if anyone have read this essay - congrats, you rock :)
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I missed out on the whole backpack story and randomly am watching this video.
You say that the actual problem you had with their backpack is that their implicit claims did not match what was in the final explicit warranty that they released.
But didn't they release the explicit warranty BECAUSE there was a problem?? The problem being the lack of the warranty, I presume, which you say was not the problem. I see like a logical error here? I don't get it.
Also I watched some clips from that Linus stream and how he's not right?
About the warranty being pretty much a meaningless piece of paper since they can weasel out of everything if they wanted to but had warranty, and they will do good - if they wanted to - without one.
At least I can see that with something like a backpack which does not have electronic parts that are hard to verify will not fail randomly soon.
As far as I understood the initial fuss was about them not having a warranty and him then responding by saying that, and then they had to quickly put up some default shitty warranty, because people really wanted them to - because people believe in useless papers - makes sense I guess, even though in reality he's right.
Also for the comment about him saying that these 'trust me bro' shirts sold very well I see that he was talking about popularity of the t-shirt, and thus the statement that it represents, and not the money necessarily - seemed weird for you to focus on that, higlighting his 'greed' I guess. And I don't like/support the shirt, yeah it was cringe and petty, I wouldn't have done that if I was him.
The whole 'we will be treating them like any other company' taking up half of the video is also kind of weird because why won't you treat them like any other company in the first place? To me, this sounds a lot like 'we're punishing you for this by not being biased towards you anymore', thats like.. meh? So before that your integrity was not that good? Now begs the question of how many more 'friends' do you have that did not yet make bad decisions?
idk, don't want this to feel like I'm a huge ltt fanboy crying at you putting down Linus, but this was my criticism of what was said in this particular video, if anyone have read this essay - congrats, you rock :)
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Scott
It looks like Linus has taken the request for a written warranty as some sort of personal attack or mistrustful accusation, gone full-defensive mode in response.
It's not. Linus needs to understand that his word on a stream is not sufficient for proper consumer protection when people are considering dropping 250 on a backpack.
This is not the community accusing Linus of being untrustworthy, it's a simple request for Linus' word to be written down in a setting that is legally binding.
No, I don't think LMG would Rick their reputation over 250, but that's not my concern.
LMG has a lot of staff. If I bought a backpack and it had a defect that showed it's head after a couple of months, I want to be able to send their support an email saying look, my backpack broke but I wasn't misusing it, I think it had this defect. this is covered under the limited warranty so can I get a replacement shipped out?
Rather than trying to explain to customer support that Linus promised on this stream at mm:ss that he 'backs this product fully'. My backpack broke inexplicably so can you please respect Linus' 'full backing' and send me a replacement? .
Simple role-swapping shows how ridiculous Linus' stance is.
What if Jensen Huang said I back our graphics cards fully, but I'm not going to formalise any sort of warranty, you just have to trust me .
LMG is at a scale where they need this sort of corporate formality to ensure consumer protection.
Yes, I trust Linus to not screw over a bunch of customers if there's a genuine problem - No, I don't think his word on some WAN show stream is sufficient to solidify my trust.
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It looks like Linus has taken the request for a written warranty as some sort of personal attack or mistrustful accusation, gone full-defensive mode in response.
It's not. Linus needs to understand that his word on a stream is not sufficient for proper consumer protection when people are considering dropping 250 on a backpack.
This is not the community accusing Linus of being untrustworthy, it's a simple request for Linus' word to be written down in a setting that is legally binding.
No, I don't think LMG would Rick their reputation over 250, but that's not my concern.
LMG has a lot of staff. If I bought a backpack and it had a defect that showed it's head after a couple of months, I want to be able to send their support an email saying look, my backpack broke but I wasn't misusing it, I think it had this defect. this is covered under the limited warranty so can I get a replacement shipped out?
Rather than trying to explain to customer support that Linus promised on this stream at mm:ss that he 'backs this product fully'. My backpack broke inexplicably so can you please respect Linus' 'full backing' and send me a replacement? .
Simple role-swapping shows how ridiculous Linus' stance is.
What if Jensen Huang said I back our graphics cards fully, but I'm not going to formalise any sort of warranty, you just have to trust me .
LMG is at a scale where they need this sort of corporate formality to ensure consumer protection.
Yes, I trust Linus to not screw over a bunch of customers if there's a genuine problem - No, I don't think his word on some WAN show stream is sufficient to solidify my trust.
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PhilfreezeCH
Personally I doesn t shock me that Linus doesn t really get the issue and sees it more as a personal attack on him, specifically he thinks it indicates people don t trust him.
This stance of his is not new, the best example for it, is how he himself describes how he would feel if employees unionized. He has said more than once that he would feel this is a personal attack on him and essentially like a vote of no confidence against him as CEO.
This is obviously wrong, people can unionize for a variety of reasons, it isn t always the case that unionization is a response to current abuse. Of course this opinion of his is somewhat understandable since in the US (and also Canada as far as I know) unions have lost their place a bit and are only recently starting to make a comeback. And people are more likely to unionize if there is blatant exploitation involved, plus the media tends to cover this more.
However, in Europe it isn t uncommon even for the employees of even very small businesses ( 10 pers) to be in a union. This doesn t have anything to do with their current boss being bad, it has everything to do with the security a union can offer. You cannot guarantees that Linus will still be the boss in a year or that he would always react the right way in all situations. A strong union can essentially offer some of these guarantees to employees.
In other words, unions are not a response to a bad boss, they are a response to a capitalist system.
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Personally I doesn t shock me that Linus doesn t really get the issue and sees it more as a personal attack on him, specifically he thinks it indicates people don t trust him.
This stance of his is not new, the best example for it, is how he himself describes how he would feel if employees unionized. He has said more than once that he would feel this is a personal attack on him and essentially like a vote of no confidence against him as CEO.
This is obviously wrong, people can unionize for a variety of reasons, it isn t always the case that unionization is a response to current abuse. Of course this opinion of his is somewhat understandable since in the US (and also Canada as far as I know) unions have lost their place a bit and are only recently starting to make a comeback. And people are more likely to unionize if there is blatant exploitation involved, plus the media tends to cover this more.
However, in Europe it isn t uncommon even for the employees of even very small businesses ( 10 pers) to be in a union. This doesn t have anything to do with their current boss being bad, it has everything to do with the security a union can offer. You cannot guarantees that Linus will still be the boss in a year or that he would always react the right way in all situations. A strong union can essentially offer some of these guarantees to employees.
In other words, unions are not a response to a bad boss, they are a response to a capitalist system.
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Breno
It's actually amazing how Steve managed to clearly separate personal from professional inside his head. Its a very hard thing to do, but it is indeed the right way to go. It doesn't mean their personal partnership relationship with LTT should become cold or disappear (and I hope very much this never happens), but when it comes to work and profession, we mustn't let out personal relationships cloud our judgement or stop us from acting the way we believe is the right way. And it's all right.
I deeply admire Linus' passion and work. He is an inspiration for me, someone who really love what he does and goes full ahead with it, and it's amazing to see things like LTTLabs being envisioned and created. I just hope that, in admist of his passion, he can find the cold-blood to really take a step back to look at things, listen to the advice of his peers (good luck, Luke!), and realize the point that he missed, and it's okay to miss, because we're human and make mistakes, and that's why we often can't do things alone. Our friends are there to help us understand what we can't on our own.
Above all, I hope Linus doesn't start seeing his colleagues (and GN and Steve) as enemies or adversaries. If things went that way, it would be dreadful for him, and really, really sad.
Conflict and problem solving is a natural part of living. Best of luck to you all! Hope this one gets solved soon :)
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It's actually amazing how Steve managed to clearly separate personal from professional inside his head. Its a very hard thing to do, but it is indeed the right way to go. It doesn't mean their personal partnership relationship with LTT should become cold or disappear (and I hope very much this never happens), but when it comes to work and profession, we mustn't let out personal relationships cloud our judgement or stop us from acting the way we believe is the right way. And it's all right.
I deeply admire Linus' passion and work. He is an inspiration for me, someone who really love what he does and goes full ahead with it, and it's amazing to see things like LTTLabs being envisioned and created. I just hope that, in admist of his passion, he can find the cold-blood to really take a step back to look at things, listen to the advice of his peers (good luck, Luke!), and realize the point that he missed, and it's okay to miss, because we're human and make mistakes, and that's why we often can't do things alone. Our friends are there to help us understand what we can't on our own.
Above all, I hope Linus doesn't start seeing his colleagues (and GN and Steve) as enemies or adversaries. If things went that way, it would be dreadful for him, and really, really sad.
Conflict and problem solving is a natural part of living. Best of luck to you all! Hope this one gets solved soon :)
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Todd
I have one big problem with this commentary. Have you ever tested their customer service to see how they handle things. Yes it is better to have things in writing, but from what I understand they have an impeccable track record with supporting their products in the past without a written warranty. That MUST be taken into account. Yes those things can change but also a company can be VERY difficult about how they handle warranties. It is like handling a retail computer... you look for damage in shipping, packaging, documentation, warranty, test the computer to see if it works and lives up to the specs... but you also test the customer support. Linus already came out and said the Twitter comments and such were tong and cheek and they should not have been made and that they are in the works to get a warranty ready. Most people that have listened to his show know what it is like and understand where he is coming from... as he pointed out other comments and the fact VERY few cancelled their orders (I think he said a few dozen). Yes he should have had it in writing, especially for such an expensive product, and yes he knows he made some mistakes. He is a little man in the retail industry trying on big man shoes for the first time.
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I have one big problem with this commentary. Have you ever tested their customer service to see how they handle things. Yes it is better to have things in writing, but from what I understand they have an impeccable track record with supporting their products in the past without a written warranty. That MUST be taken into account. Yes those things can change but also a company can be VERY difficult about how they handle warranties. It is like handling a retail computer... you look for damage in shipping, packaging, documentation, warranty, test the computer to see if it works and lives up to the specs... but you also test the customer support. Linus already came out and said the Twitter comments and such were tong and cheek and they should not have been made and that they are in the works to get a warranty ready. Most people that have listened to his show know what it is like and understand where he is coming from... as he pointed out other comments and the fact VERY few cancelled their orders (I think he said a few dozen). Yes he should have had it in writing, especially for such an expensive product, and yes he knows he made some mistakes. He is a little man in the retail industry trying on big man shoes for the first time.
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Spencer
I think the integrity of information being presented by a reporting media group is essential because almost all viewers will rely on information being conveyed solely by the reputation of the group instead of checking sources, because that's too much work. Top to bottom integrity is important, even for something as (on the surface) silly as an unwritten backpack warranty because if you'd be willing to beat around the bush with a sale, who's to say you wouldn't half-ass your research too? Are there presentation segments where the audience isn't aware they're being misled because they fully trust the outlet and won't check sources?
Peer review on a grander scale is exactly the purpose of tech media outlets. Hopefully constructive criticism among presenters becomes the norm so no internal company culture issues become norms. It's kinda like as a kid, visiting your friend's house and realizing their parents are a little nutty and saying dude, this house is not normal . Sometimes that's all it takes to create change, because everyone involved in company culture is an adult.
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I think the integrity of information being presented by a reporting media group is essential because almost all viewers will rely on information being conveyed solely by the reputation of the group instead of checking sources, because that's too much work. Top to bottom integrity is important, even for something as (on the surface) silly as an unwritten backpack warranty because if you'd be willing to beat around the bush with a sale, who's to say you wouldn't half-ass your research too? Are there presentation segments where the audience isn't aware they're being misled because they fully trust the outlet and won't check sources?
Peer review on a grander scale is exactly the purpose of tech media outlets. Hopefully constructive criticism among presenters becomes the norm so no internal company culture issues become norms. It's kinda like as a kid, visiting your friend's house and realizing their parents are a little nutty and saying dude, this house is not normal . Sometimes that's all it takes to create change, because everyone involved in company culture is an adult.
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Tim
I totally get Linus' point, in that after sales service basically comes down to integrity and trust. However, purchasing an item is a contract of sale, and any time there is a contract there should be an explicit written record of the terms of the contract. Verbal agreements are all very well while everything is good, but as soon as there is a grievance on either side, it tends to transpire that expectations were different on each side. Linus took it all too personally, a classic business mistake. The T-shirt is neither here nor there. It was a stunt, some people might think it was in bad taste but ultimately it had no effect on the warranty status of the backpacks. A business is out to make money and Linus took an opportunity that paid off, I can't criticize him for that. Ironically, Linus may have tarnished his reputation by insisting that he wouldn't tarnish his reputation. In the end, it looks like he got push-back internally and has grudgingly done the right thing.
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I totally get Linus' point, in that after sales service basically comes down to integrity and trust. However, purchasing an item is a contract of sale, and any time there is a contract there should be an explicit written record of the terms of the contract. Verbal agreements are all very well while everything is good, but as soon as there is a grievance on either side, it tends to transpire that expectations were different on each side. Linus took it all too personally, a classic business mistake. The T-shirt is neither here nor there. It was a stunt, some people might think it was in bad taste but ultimately it had no effect on the warranty status of the backpacks. A business is out to make money and Linus took an opportunity that paid off, I can't criticize him for that. Ironically, Linus may have tarnished his reputation by insisting that he wouldn't tarnish his reputation. In the end, it looks like he got push-back internally and has grudgingly done the right thing.
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NorfolknGood
Linus really shit the bed on this one, you could see how pissy Luje was about it. Why is it so hard for Linus as a CEO to understand people just want to understand exactly where they stand.
Laws vary so much around the world one countries best might be a legal minimum elsewhere.
His attitude has certainly put me off ordering anything, I've wanted to order from LTT for some time but given Linus' quite frankly pathetic childish attitude I'll be staying well clear & be buying GN stuff instead.
Why anyone thinks it's acceptable to troll & bully customers & potential customers, because that t shirt was nothing other than a form of bullying is beyond me & I expected better from Linus. I think he needs to go sit in a dark room & have a long hard think before gobbing off again. As for where the t shirt idea came from ill bet linus already had it in the works, saying a twitter user came up with it....
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Linus really shit the bed on this one, you could see how pissy Luje was about it. Why is it so hard for Linus as a CEO to understand people just want to understand exactly where they stand.
Laws vary so much around the world one countries best might be a legal minimum elsewhere.
His attitude has certainly put me off ordering anything, I've wanted to order from LTT for some time but given Linus' quite frankly pathetic childish attitude I'll be staying well clear & be buying GN stuff instead.
Why anyone thinks it's acceptable to troll & bully customers & potential customers, because that t shirt was nothing other than a form of bullying is beyond me & I expected better from Linus. I think he needs to go sit in a dark room & have a long hard think before gobbing off again. As for where the t shirt idea came from ill bet linus already had it in the works, saying a twitter user came up with it....
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RRSTTT
I never buy anything with the expectation that the company will honor their stated warranty. They will always find a way out of it, because they don t care about the customer, or any public backlash.
Linus on the other hand, is very motivated by how people think and speak about him. If there was a legit, or even boarder line problem with his product, I think he would lean towards helping the customer, just to avoid negativity towards him.
I think like most people, he takes criticism of him or or his company, very personally. His response to this kinda shows that, are the shirts in bad taste, yeah, but it s him acknowledging it, and trying to deflect.
I have a SwissGear backpack, I m on my second one after a really long time of use, and I d buy another one. That said, I don t think anyone at the company with any power would even respond, much less care, if there was any kind of blowback at them.
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I never buy anything with the expectation that the company will honor their stated warranty. They will always find a way out of it, because they don t care about the customer, or any public backlash.
Linus on the other hand, is very motivated by how people think and speak about him. If there was a legit, or even boarder line problem with his product, I think he would lean towards helping the customer, just to avoid negativity towards him.
I think like most people, he takes criticism of him or or his company, very personally. His response to this kinda shows that, are the shirts in bad taste, yeah, but it s him acknowledging it, and trying to deflect.
I have a SwissGear backpack, I m on my second one after a really long time of use, and I d buy another one. That said, I don t think anyone at the company with any power would even respond, much less care, if there was any kind of blowback at them.
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JiggyDancer
See this is when I feel like Steve is just picking hairs and picking a fight. Linus doesn't have to do this. A product doesn't HAVE to have a warranty. You buy a generic brand item, it often has no warranty on it. It gives piece of mind to the customer, but the manufacturer has no obligation to be offer it. Especially if it's a product that will definitely sell out like the backpack, there is no financial incentive for Linus to offer it. Americans just expect it as a part of their purchases. And now, Linus offers a LIFETIME warranty and Steve is picking on it's very standard limitations? Lol.
Linus didn't offer a warranty not cuz he's greedy. He was probably so excited about the product he didn't bother with the details and forgot about it, in his eagerness to spread word about the product. He will and has already offer better than standard support on all his products.
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See this is when I feel like Steve is just picking hairs and picking a fight. Linus doesn't have to do this. A product doesn't HAVE to have a warranty. You buy a generic brand item, it often has no warranty on it. It gives piece of mind to the customer, but the manufacturer has no obligation to be offer it. Especially if it's a product that will definitely sell out like the backpack, there is no financial incentive for Linus to offer it. Americans just expect it as a part of their purchases. And now, Linus offers a LIFETIME warranty and Steve is picking on it's very standard limitations? Lol.
Linus didn't offer a warranty not cuz he's greedy. He was probably so excited about the product he didn't bother with the details and forgot about it, in his eagerness to spread word about the product. He will and has already offer better than standard support on all his products.
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sardonisms
There's an adage I learned from a writer's forum and remember because it feels appropriate to all contracts. To paraphrase, The contract isn't written for when things are going well. The contract is written on the assumption that five minutes after signing both parties will be hit by a bus and the terms will be fought over by their vindictive next of kin. In other words, even if I were to trust Linus himself with my life, I would want that warranty in writing because when something goes wrong it may not be him I'm negotiating with anymore. Frankly Linus is taking this way too personally. It's not about him as a person one way or the other. It's about the words on the page and who's protected from what if LMG goes under or Linus is no longer running it.
I think I had another comment here but I can't remember it so I'm gonna keep watching and comment if it comes back.
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There's an adage I learned from a writer's forum and remember because it feels appropriate to all contracts. To paraphrase, The contract isn't written for when things are going well. The contract is written on the assumption that five minutes after signing both parties will be hit by a bus and the terms will be fought over by their vindictive next of kin. In other words, even if I were to trust Linus himself with my life, I would want that warranty in writing because when something goes wrong it may not be him I'm negotiating with anymore. Frankly Linus is taking this way too personally. It's not about him as a person one way or the other. It's about the words on the page and who's protected from what if LMG goes under or Linus is no longer running it.
I think I had another comment here but I can't remember it so I'm gonna keep watching and comment if it comes back.
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SeanCasGamer
Linus' reaction to the very valid criticisms and his entirely tone deaf way of dealing with them smelled a lot like Noah Katz from Artesian. He was smug, childish, and condescending to customers who just asked for written validation of a promise he made while selling what was a fairly expensive backpack to his customers.
I think the bigger problem Linus needs to look at with respect to himself is how much disdain he had for his customers. That was really kind of gross and Luke could see it. Imagine sitting on a video show live with your boss and he's going off like a childish tool, and you have the balls to point it out. Kudos to Luke, that was uncomfortable to watch.
Maybe Linus needs to take a step back for a bit and re-evaluate where he is in life and the evolution of his business - it's very hard to be that successful and remain grounded.
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Linus' reaction to the very valid criticisms and his entirely tone deaf way of dealing with them smelled a lot like Noah Katz from Artesian. He was smug, childish, and condescending to customers who just asked for written validation of a promise he made while selling what was a fairly expensive backpack to his customers.
I think the bigger problem Linus needs to look at with respect to himself is how much disdain he had for his customers. That was really kind of gross and Luke could see it. Imagine sitting on a video show live with your boss and he's going off like a childish tool, and you have the balls to point it out. Kudos to Luke, that was uncomfortable to watch.
Maybe Linus needs to take a step back for a bit and re-evaluate where he is in life and the evolution of his business - it's very hard to be that successful and remain grounded.
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Craig
Hi Steve. I was oblivious to this whole warranty situation but Linus on this occasion has made, by his own omission, a 7 figure investment in these backpacks. Clearly an element of his behaviour (his directions to the LTT staff) on the warranty of this item is somewhat a protection to the misuse of this backpack leading to massive warranty claims.
But one thing I will say is Luke's public outward projection of difference of opinion with the company line is a majorly encouraging.
I can see Linus (with no malice behind this) may not have thought this through but to have a sounding board (whether public or private) to balance their views within the organisation is something Linus should not let go of.
I respect Luke calling out Linus despite them having different opinions.
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Hi Steve. I was oblivious to this whole warranty situation but Linus on this occasion has made, by his own omission, a 7 figure investment in these backpacks. Clearly an element of his behaviour (his directions to the LTT staff) on the warranty of this item is somewhat a protection to the misuse of this backpack leading to massive warranty claims.
But one thing I will say is Luke's public outward projection of difference of opinion with the company line is a majorly encouraging.
I can see Linus (with no malice behind this) may not have thought this through but to have a sounding board (whether public or private) to balance their views within the organisation is something Linus should not let go of.
I respect Luke calling out Linus despite them having different opinions.
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XDSDDLord
I don't have the time to watch everything right now, I have to leave, but I got through the warranty stuff and want to say that I can see this is hard for you, but I respect you for doing it. I like LTT, their products, and I trust Linus as far as I can throw him- and he's a pretty small dude. Still, at their scale, by his own admission, they are big enough to have a PR team and a legal team, and he chooses not to just because, so when they make these kinds of mistakes, they are avoidable and should have been avoided, and therefore they need to be called out. I hope this doesn't hurt your guys' friendships and create animosity, but I have faith it won't. If it does. If it does, someone in this circle is not the kind of person I thought they were.
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I don't have the time to watch everything right now, I have to leave, but I got through the warranty stuff and want to say that I can see this is hard for you, but I respect you for doing it. I like LTT, their products, and I trust Linus as far as I can throw him- and he's a pretty small dude. Still, at their scale, by his own admission, they are big enough to have a PR team and a legal team, and he chooses not to just because, so when they make these kinds of mistakes, they are avoidable and should have been avoided, and therefore they need to be called out. I hope this doesn't hurt your guys' friendships and create animosity, but I have faith it won't. If it does. If it does, someone in this circle is not the kind of person I thought they were.
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