Your Components are probably FAKE! Soooo is that BAD?
video description
While the best performing ones go into what we call the original and to the loyal customers (at a higher margin, there are a lot of contacts/outlets who would buy up the remaining off-spec parts at a dead cheap price (sometimes just the cost of shipping. This makes it so they are not thrown away, and also makes some (even if minimal) revenue contribution to the fab process. Those other outlets now wholesale them at still lower price to gray markets from where the ebay/alibaba vendors pick them up, and they list them on ecomm sites while still keeping a margin.
Hope this goes to clarify further (about the concept of fakeness on this context, compared to its dictionary meaning) along the lines of what you wanted to raise awareness with the video.
BTW thanks for covering the topic under this light. In most other such videos it's opinionated & one dimensional (with little to no opening for the actual truth, so kudos to you for testing the specs and figuring out that the fakes can even be better, just that they're off-spec by a certain threshold the manufacturer sets for them, and so, can't go into the best bin.
Date: 2022-06-05
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Comments and reviews: 9
Mojo
There's a poor definition of 'Fake' in use here. First off, 'salvaged' components are not fake. Second, you contradict yourself from the get-go by intimating that real fake manufacturing of components don't exist - 'cos setting up a fab plant is too expensive - either such setups do exist, or what we're dealing with is 're-purposed' components (genuine but sub-standard. I have hundreds of i. c's ordered through Aliexpress over the years, some of which are 'salvaged' components, and very easy to spot - these are usually long EOL components. By far the vast majority are brand new i. c's. My presumption has always been that most of these must have been failed QC components from a legitimate manufacturer. I have however come across transistors, laser-etched (apparently) that have turned out to be not even from the same family - eg. branded NFET 2n3819's turned out to be bipolar transistors.
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There's a poor definition of 'Fake' in use here. First off, 'salvaged' components are not fake. Second, you contradict yourself from the get-go by intimating that real fake manufacturing of components don't exist - 'cos setting up a fab plant is too expensive - either such setups do exist, or what we're dealing with is 're-purposed' components (genuine but sub-standard. I have hundreds of i. c's ordered through Aliexpress over the years, some of which are 'salvaged' components, and very easy to spot - these are usually long EOL components. By far the vast majority are brand new i. c's. My presumption has always been that most of these must have been failed QC components from a legitimate manufacturer. I have however come across transistors, laser-etched (apparently) that have turned out to be not even from the same family - eg. branded NFET 2n3819's turned out to be bipolar transistors.
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Ignis
Trying to determine which ones are fake by (optical) inspection comes with a few issues. Some package details may have changed with time so unless you have knowledge about the whole history of a certain chip it may be hard to guess which one is genuine. Some fakes may also have been produced with machinery that previously was churning out legit parts but got decomissioned, your DIL package chips aren't exactly 2nm processes, if you catch my drift. Neither are old transistor designs that have been around for over 30 years. There are also batches that get sorted out due to production issues which may still work, that stuff also often seems to find it's way into shinzen if rumors are to believed. Practically every conceivable scenario can happen here, it's best to just test stuff yourself first if you have critical applications and no manufacturer you can sue in case things go south. ;)
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Trying to determine which ones are fake by (optical) inspection comes with a few issues. Some package details may have changed with time so unless you have knowledge about the whole history of a certain chip it may be hard to guess which one is genuine. Some fakes may also have been produced with machinery that previously was churning out legit parts but got decomissioned, your DIL package chips aren't exactly 2nm processes, if you catch my drift. Neither are old transistor designs that have been around for over 30 years. There are also batches that get sorted out due to production issues which may still work, that stuff also often seems to find it's way into shinzen if rumors are to believed. Practically every conceivable scenario can happen here, it's best to just test stuff yourself first if you have critical applications and no manufacturer you can sue in case things go south. ;)
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fischX
Fake ones are usually better - and that's the reason why you shouldn't buy them. To understand that you should understand how they make money - they specialise in legacy chips those who aren't produced anymore and where cheaper alternatives are available. So where a similar chip is still produced. Usually that happens in the industry when a popular chip is replaced by a better revision or product from a competitor. So why is the old chip still being sold - usually for bad reasons - educational institutions teaching old stuff, people fix old devices by changing chips based on numbers, bureaucracy only allow some parts. There are some legit reasons when a device depends on a massive amounts of analogue magic but in reality that's rare especially when it comes to standard chips. So know what's the current go to Chip for some tasks is is always good.
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Fake ones are usually better - and that's the reason why you shouldn't buy them. To understand that you should understand how they make money - they specialise in legacy chips those who aren't produced anymore and where cheaper alternatives are available. So where a similar chip is still produced. Usually that happens in the industry when a popular chip is replaced by a better revision or product from a competitor. So why is the old chip still being sold - usually for bad reasons - educational institutions teaching old stuff, people fix old devices by changing chips based on numbers, bureaucracy only allow some parts. There are some legit reasons when a device depends on a massive amounts of analogue magic but in reality that's rare especially when it comes to standard chips. So know what's the current go to Chip for some tasks is is always good.
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MrTohtoriR
This is a good reminder of todays issues in the global market. I have been using a lot of ebay components in the past. Now a days not so much after the import tax rules changed. However, i have never received any components that would have not worked at all for the purpose. Obviously have not measured them all or actually hardly any of them in any way. GreatScott have you received non functioning ones which is caused by the reasons explained on the video(not a FET died by bad non esd packaging etc? Anyone else? I would still like to believe that the factories that do the genuine components in china could do the same stuff off hours with their own labels burned in them. If this theory would be true those could be similar to the real ones.
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This is a good reminder of todays issues in the global market. I have been using a lot of ebay components in the past. Now a days not so much after the import tax rules changed. However, i have never received any components that would have not worked at all for the purpose. Obviously have not measured them all or actually hardly any of them in any way. GreatScott have you received non functioning ones which is caused by the reasons explained on the video(not a FET died by bad non esd packaging etc? Anyone else? I would still like to believe that the factories that do the genuine components in china could do the same stuff off hours with their own labels burned in them. If this theory would be true those could be similar to the real ones.
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Paul
Once I accidentally blew up a MOSFET inside a MPPT charge controller. It was FHP3205. So I went to my local electronics supplier and purchased the so called EQUIVALENT IRF3205. I checked the datasheet on spot and saw that it can also handle the same parameters at that of the original.
But when I looked closely. The one I got was also fake using the body shape comparison to datasheet.
So basically, I am not sure whether the charge controller can now work as it was earlier, but instead of spending thousands on a new controller and replacing a blown MOSFET for a couple of bucks for a project is worth even though it was a fake replacement.
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Once I accidentally blew up a MOSFET inside a MPPT charge controller. It was FHP3205. So I went to my local electronics supplier and purchased the so called EQUIVALENT IRF3205. I checked the datasheet on spot and saw that it can also handle the same parameters at that of the original.
But when I looked closely. The one I got was also fake using the body shape comparison to datasheet.
So basically, I am not sure whether the charge controller can now work as it was earlier, but instead of spending thousands on a new controller and replacing a blown MOSFET for a couple of bucks for a project is worth even though it was a fake replacement.
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Strider9655
I can say straight up, most of the BIG component distributors also buy the fake parts, because they're basically just sales offices full of idiots who are desperate to make a profit and get that promotion.
I've had to deal with the fallout from this several times, last one was 25'000 crimp terminals for Molex connectors, all the terminals were fake, none of them fit properly, all had to be thrown away.
So when you can't trust the big distributors and you know you're just going to be paying 10x the price of just buying the same junk from China, just buy the junk from China directly and save your money.
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I can say straight up, most of the BIG component distributors also buy the fake parts, because they're basically just sales offices full of idiots who are desperate to make a profit and get that promotion.
I've had to deal with the fallout from this several times, last one was 25'000 crimp terminals for Molex connectors, all the terminals were fake, none of them fit properly, all had to be thrown away.
So when you can't trust the big distributors and you know you're just going to be paying 10x the price of just buying the same junk from China, just buy the junk from China directly and save your money.
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Brian
I don't worry about it too much because I will NOT buy components from EBay. I will not support the people who sell fake components in any way. I only buy from reputable distributors. The one exception to this is if I need to repair something with an obsolete part not available from a distributor and that doesn't happen very often. I will also not knowingly use an obsolete part in any new design. So that also eliminates parts on Amazon because the majority of parts on Amazon are obsolete and may also be fake. If you want consistent reliable performance on every circuit you can't use EBay parts.
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I don't worry about it too much because I will NOT buy components from EBay. I will not support the people who sell fake components in any way. I only buy from reputable distributors. The one exception to this is if I need to repair something with an obsolete part not available from a distributor and that doesn't happen very often. I will also not knowingly use an obsolete part in any new design. So that also eliminates parts on Amazon because the majority of parts on Amazon are obsolete and may also be fake. If you want consistent reliable performance on every circuit you can't use EBay parts.
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Matt
There is another option in regards to the manufacturing of the fake chips, I believe it is called the 3rd shift. That is where the real company who own's the IP for the chips has a chip making company make the chips for them and are willing to pay for 2 shifts worth of workers but have time when the factory is down for the workers to rest. However, the factory owners don't nessassarily do that and may have a 3rd shift running the same equipment, making the same components but sell the product directly to suppliers, bypassing the company who ordered the chips.
reply
There is another option in regards to the manufacturing of the fake chips, I believe it is called the 3rd shift. That is where the real company who own's the IP for the chips has a chip making company make the chips for them and are willing to pay for 2 shifts worth of workers but have time when the factory is down for the workers to rest. However, the factory owners don't nessassarily do that and may have a 3rd shift running the same equipment, making the same components but sell the product directly to suppliers, bypassing the company who ordered the chips.
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MikeBramm
Every manufacturer is going to have production failures and bad batches. Respectable manufacturers typically catch those issues during testing and quality control, and destroy those products before they reach the market. However, Chinese manufactures either don't do the testing and/or quality control steps, or just don't care about those issues, so all the crap makes it out to the market. That's why I never purchase electronics products from Chinese manufacturers. They have given themselves a bad name over the years and I just don't trust them.
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Every manufacturer is going to have production failures and bad batches. Respectable manufacturers typically catch those issues during testing and quality control, and destroy those products before they reach the market. However, Chinese manufactures either don't do the testing and/or quality control steps, or just don't care about those issues, so all the crap makes it out to the market. That's why I never purchase electronics products from Chinese manufacturers. They have given themselves a bad name over the years and I just don't trust them.
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