The Other Shop Told This Lady She Needed A New Instrument Cluster.
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Date: 2024-05-11
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Comments and reviews: 20
slojohnson
Eric,
I am not an automobile mechanic, but about 3 years ago I watched you diagnose an even more tenacious electrical issue. I wrote software for more than 40 years, went to university, but they didn't even touch on diagnostic practices. I learned it in the field over years. As I mentioned, I ran into one of your videos years ago, and forwarded to a coworker, and told him this guy diagnoses problems in much the same way we do.
Isolate the issues by eliminating obvious non-failures. In software it is often binary - this half works, this half doesn't - rinse, repeat. I find it totally unacceptable that any qualified shop could not even notice a CAN bus failure in a modern car. That is one step above Is the power on
I've seen too many vids where parts cannon is the default response. Whole new dash cluster would have cost thousands and not fixed the problem. In fact, Luna did a better job than the other shop as to the nature of the issue. Some shops fire a parts cannon either out of ignorance (hopefully) or out of out-right malice trying to drain someone's wallet.
From your comment, you are not a miracle worker, you are simply very competent at your job. Perhaps you are right - automotive tech schools should teach diagnostic skills and electronics skills. Hell, I can set the points on a mid-1970s VW, but there is no way I could figure out the electronics of my 2020 Nissan Leaf.
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Eric,
I am not an automobile mechanic, but about 3 years ago I watched you diagnose an even more tenacious electrical issue. I wrote software for more than 40 years, went to university, but they didn't even touch on diagnostic practices. I learned it in the field over years. As I mentioned, I ran into one of your videos years ago, and forwarded to a coworker, and told him this guy diagnoses problems in much the same way we do.
Isolate the issues by eliminating obvious non-failures. In software it is often binary - this half works, this half doesn't - rinse, repeat. I find it totally unacceptable that any qualified shop could not even notice a CAN bus failure in a modern car. That is one step above Is the power on
I've seen too many vids where parts cannon is the default response. Whole new dash cluster would have cost thousands and not fixed the problem. In fact, Luna did a better job than the other shop as to the nature of the issue. Some shops fire a parts cannon either out of ignorance (hopefully) or out of out-right malice trying to drain someone's wallet.
From your comment, you are not a miracle worker, you are simply very competent at your job. Perhaps you are right - automotive tech schools should teach diagnostic skills and electronics skills. Hell, I can set the points on a mid-1970s VW, but there is no way I could figure out the electronics of my 2020 Nissan Leaf.
reply
scottnusser6232
You are right Eric, there are techs out here with years of experience that do what you do every day, and there are techs that sayneeds a cluster and when that doesn't fix the car somehow they get paid anyway and the car ends up at your shop or mine. The big thing is our integrity, you are 1st class in that department! Like you I can't stand the idea that someone may think I ripped them off. On complex jobs I take pictures to show the customer, always show old, worn parts. Why your videos are so important is to show what we go through as techs to actually fix the car. If I was a younger man I'd have me show like yours The guys that hang around my shop always say maybe Eric O has a video when I'm in to a tough repair. The reason you are so popular is because you have integrity, technical skill, humor, and a very good ability to get your thought process across. Hell I even have the tool truck guys watching you to find me the specialty stuff you use. Maybe soon you could update us on the mig gun flex nozzel, dying to know if it works well. Great show as always
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You are right Eric, there are techs out here with years of experience that do what you do every day, and there are techs that sayneeds a cluster and when that doesn't fix the car somehow they get paid anyway and the car ends up at your shop or mine. The big thing is our integrity, you are 1st class in that department! Like you I can't stand the idea that someone may think I ripped them off. On complex jobs I take pictures to show the customer, always show old, worn parts. Why your videos are so important is to show what we go through as techs to actually fix the car. If I was a younger man I'd have me show like yours The guys that hang around my shop always say maybe Eric O has a video when I'm in to a tough repair. The reason you are so popular is because you have integrity, technical skill, humor, and a very good ability to get your thought process across. Hell I even have the tool truck guys watching you to find me the specialty stuff you use. Maybe soon you could update us on the mig gun flex nozzel, dying to know if it works well. Great show as always
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nopenottalib4366
You are 100% right that some people have a knack for troubleshooting, while others have to work at it. Being a guy that's worked in IT for most of my adult life, and being a guy that enjoys seeing how things tick, I'm very lucky that basic troubleshooting comes easy for me. Don't get me wrong, there are LOTS of things I don't know, and I've had my butt handed to me on diagnostics stuff more than once or twice. That said, best advice I could offer to anyone is: You CAN figure out what's going on. Just use the tools at your disposal, don't throw in the towel, and it's OK to walk away from an issue to clear your head and get a fresh perspective. Definitely come up with a plan that works for you and stick to that plan. Also, never be reluctant to reach out to your peers and ask for advice, suggestions, and possible solutions.
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You are 100% right that some people have a knack for troubleshooting, while others have to work at it. Being a guy that's worked in IT for most of my adult life, and being a guy that enjoys seeing how things tick, I'm very lucky that basic troubleshooting comes easy for me. Don't get me wrong, there are LOTS of things I don't know, and I've had my butt handed to me on diagnostics stuff more than once or twice. That said, best advice I could offer to anyone is: You CAN figure out what's going on. Just use the tools at your disposal, don't throw in the towel, and it's OK to walk away from an issue to clear your head and get a fresh perspective. Definitely come up with a plan that works for you and stick to that plan. Also, never be reluctant to reach out to your peers and ask for advice, suggestions, and possible solutions.
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fredflintstone8048
It's good to have a basic understanding of electrical/electronics regarding how resistors in a circuit interact with each other letting us know what to expect when connecting an ohm meter.
Resistors in series are added together.
Resistors in parallel are a little bit trickier. Two resistors of the same value (120 ohms in this case) will show half the value when connected in parallel (60 ohms. The formula for that is R1 R2 / R1 R2. Of course it's easy when looking at com networks because the resistors are roughly the same value so it's just cut in half. It's normal practice for communication networks to have a termination resistor at each end.
When dealing with more than one resistor in parallel we use: 1 / (1 / R1 1 / R3 1 / R3 ) It will also work with just two resistors as well.
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It's good to have a basic understanding of electrical/electronics regarding how resistors in a circuit interact with each other letting us know what to expect when connecting an ohm meter.
Resistors in series are added together.
Resistors in parallel are a little bit trickier. Two resistors of the same value (120 ohms in this case) will show half the value when connected in parallel (60 ohms. The formula for that is R1 R2 / R1 R2. Of course it's easy when looking at com networks because the resistors are roughly the same value so it's just cut in half. It's normal practice for communication networks to have a termination resistor at each end.
When dealing with more than one resistor in parallel we use: 1 / (1 / R1 1 / R3 1 / R3 ) It will also work with just two resistors as well.
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tuberstitious
Your modesty is appreciated. While you may not be a miracle worker, you definitely are blessed with the gift of being wired to understand and analyze those circuits and networks and to know how and/or understand how they relate and can track logically how they work or fail and where to go to get the correct info. It's great to be young and have a sponge-brain. Keep learning new stuff as much as you can now and hopefully when you r old that knowledge will not depart from you. whether or not it is still applicable. I praise God for you and your family and what you do to help so many. The owner of that car will certainly appreciate you too. I've said it b4. and now again. pack up your kit and family and move to Texas. I know a small town that you would fit into nicely. ;-) we have internet here too
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Your modesty is appreciated. While you may not be a miracle worker, you definitely are blessed with the gift of being wired to understand and analyze those circuits and networks and to know how and/or understand how they relate and can track logically how they work or fail and where to go to get the correct info. It's great to be young and have a sponge-brain. Keep learning new stuff as much as you can now and hopefully when you r old that knowledge will not depart from you. whether or not it is still applicable. I praise God for you and your family and what you do to help so many. The owner of that car will certainly appreciate you too. I've said it b4. and now again. pack up your kit and family and move to Texas. I know a small town that you would fit into nicely. ;-) we have internet here too
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autorepair
Do not undersell yourself. Where you shine above 90% of the rest of the mechanics and technicians are the following. Your honesty, integrity and simple down to earth strategy. When you come to a point of being stumped or cannot prove the point of failure you admit you need to call someone. Your logical thought process of following the plan to conclusion. You are far and above the average Eric. Your knowledge and ability make all repairs seem so simple. Simple because, like I said you come up with a plan and follow it. Thank you for the great videos and content and commentary.
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Do not undersell yourself. Where you shine above 90% of the rest of the mechanics and technicians are the following. Your honesty, integrity and simple down to earth strategy. When you come to a point of being stumped or cannot prove the point of failure you admit you need to call someone. Your logical thought process of following the plan to conclusion. You are far and above the average Eric. Your knowledge and ability make all repairs seem so simple. Simple because, like I said you come up with a plan and follow it. Thank you for the great videos and content and commentary.
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jamescaron6465
The first thing I thought was that a wiring loom that contained the senders were broken. I never would have guessed they were eaten and where they were eaten. Of course they had to eat it close to the connector. That was some good solder work, I have that same Weller butane iron and I have to say it works great. You can get into places you never could with a plug in.
When a shop says the lady needs an entire instrument panel when in reality wires were eaten by mice, you can say whatever you want.
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The first thing I thought was that a wiring loom that contained the senders were broken. I never would have guessed they were eaten and where they were eaten. Of course they had to eat it close to the connector. That was some good solder work, I have that same Weller butane iron and I have to say it works great. You can get into places you never could with a plug in.
When a shop says the lady needs an entire instrument panel when in reality wires were eaten by mice, you can say whatever you want.
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user-zp9xk1zb4v
Common sense and good troubleshooting skills are essential to be a successful technician in any field. You have these qualities. You cannot teach these skills. I have been in the technical field for over 40 years. My experience with people and teaching have determined that you either have the God given talent or you don’t. I enjoy watching your videos and giving the car a Cat Scan was the proper diagnostic test as it proved the inhabitants had left the temporary residence!
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Common sense and good troubleshooting skills are essential to be a successful technician in any field. You have these qualities. You cannot teach these skills. I have been in the technical field for over 40 years. My experience with people and teaching have determined that you either have the God given talent or you don’t. I enjoy watching your videos and giving the car a Cat Scan was the proper diagnostic test as it proved the inhabitants had left the temporary residence!
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calholli
I wish you would have shown how you found the 120 ohm locations in service data. Like how did you look it up/ what terms did you use/ etc. We need more footage of how you dig through service data. so I can get more familiar with using it. : ) . . I know most of it is straight forward; but those terminating resistors are probably tricky to look up. I'd be surprised if you just put terminating resistor in the search, that it would actually find it. (I could be wrong)
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I wish you would have shown how you found the 120 ohm locations in service data. Like how did you look it up/ what terms did you use/ etc. We need more footage of how you dig through service data. so I can get more familiar with using it. : ) . . I know most of it is straight forward; but those terminating resistors are probably tricky to look up. I'd be surprised if you just put terminating resistor in the search, that it would actually find it. (I could be wrong)
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dennisgundlach87
Eric, your right 50% of all knowledge comes from reading and understanding what you read, the rest is the physically doing the work, what we like is the way you tell the story, however some of the finer details about when and where to make connections without damage to equipment are not covered in service data, honestly Eric sometimes just tell us how to do it, your electrical skills are top notch, so don't give me that crap about your ability to teach
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Eric, your right 50% of all knowledge comes from reading and understanding what you read, the rest is the physically doing the work, what we like is the way you tell the story, however some of the finer details about when and where to make connections without damage to equipment are not covered in service data, honestly Eric sometimes just tell us how to do it, your electrical skills are top notch, so don't give me that crap about your ability to teach
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WorthlessNickores
Not trying to stroke your ego but being a fountain of knowledge with your amount of automotive wizdom is an amazing feat. I'm sure you're watched and adored by a lot of back yard mechanics like myself that give us courage repair our own vehicles and try to help those around us that otherwise would be left without transportation, so in a way Eric O, you are a mechanical master professor at the college of hard knocks.
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Not trying to stroke your ego but being a fountain of knowledge with your amount of automotive wizdom is an amazing feat. I'm sure you're watched and adored by a lot of back yard mechanics like myself that give us courage repair our own vehicles and try to help those around us that otherwise would be left without transportation, so in a way Eric O, you are a mechanical master professor at the college of hard knocks.
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yvindHvaal
Mr O, you're one of a kind. I really need someone with your scills here where I live. My local shop do NOT have what it takes to solve the problem with our Corolla. Evap combined with high fuel consumption, but no money light. And no codes. So I'm looking for another shop to solve the problem, but they are far between. I loved your shop assistent doin' the catscan. Best greetings from Norway.
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Mr O, you're one of a kind. I really need someone with your scills here where I live. My local shop do NOT have what it takes to solve the problem with our Corolla. Evap combined with high fuel consumption, but no money light. And no codes. So I'm looking for another shop to solve the problem, but they are far between. I loved your shop assistent doin' the catscan. Best greetings from Norway.
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mrlister2000
Speaking about the Buick, I had a 2004 Renault Scenic 2 with 203, 000 miles on the clock and it had the original turbo, alternator fuel pump, injectors and clutch when the oil seals finally let go!
I replaced the EGR valve at 80k and a turbo pipe as Renault had botched a repair previously but apart from those a few normal wear and tear parts, she was original. Best car I've ever owned!
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Speaking about the Buick, I had a 2004 Renault Scenic 2 with 203, 000 miles on the clock and it had the original turbo, alternator fuel pump, injectors and clutch when the oil seals finally let go!
I replaced the EGR valve at 80k and a turbo pipe as Renault had botched a repair previously but apart from those a few normal wear and tear parts, she was original. Best car I've ever owned!
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coreyv2797
60 ohms is the total resistance of the circuit, each parallel circuit will be 120ohms each, but when factoring the total resistance of the circuit you use the reciprocal method to figure it out totalling 60 ohms. Not just in the automotive field, but electrical field as well. As always, another great diag video and not just unloading the parts canon. Keep up the great work Mr. O!
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60 ohms is the total resistance of the circuit, each parallel circuit will be 120ohms each, but when factoring the total resistance of the circuit you use the reciprocal method to figure it out totalling 60 ohms. Not just in the automotive field, but electrical field as well. As always, another great diag video and not just unloading the parts canon. Keep up the great work Mr. O!
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harrywalker968
its solder. sods are clumps of grass. morse code guy forgot the i in aluminium. & its split pin, not cotter pin. geeeez, us britts need to teach you english. can i have a green card, because thats the only green ill ever need. told my bro, im flying 1 way to mehico, then running to the u. s. seeing you cant stop me. & if i make it, ill be damn sure to vote for bbbb trump.
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its solder. sods are clumps of grass. morse code guy forgot the i in aluminium. & its split pin, not cotter pin. geeeez, us britts need to teach you english. can i have a green card, because thats the only green ill ever need. told my bro, im flying 1 way to mehico, then running to the u. s. seeing you cant stop me. & if i make it, ill be damn sure to vote for bbbb trump.
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autorepair
49: 50 It's something your born with.
Most folk don't have the ability to diagnose any problem.
If you can diagnose then all you need is the drive to learn about a different system.
It could be nuts and bolts stuff or electron stuff but basic knowledge will lead the way to success.
Plus you're teaching me to read modern wiring diagrams.
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49: 50 It's something your born with.
Most folk don't have the ability to diagnose any problem.
If you can diagnose then all you need is the drive to learn about a different system.
It could be nuts and bolts stuff or electron stuff but basic knowledge will lead the way to success.
Plus you're teaching me to read modern wiring diagrams.
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theovandaele3220
I think people find you amazing because a) you hate part cannons b) you have a very down to earth logical mind and c) you keep on digging following that logic. You want to actually fix things without it costing a shitload of money. In my experience that makes you a minority. Many customers would pay for a new cluster and a still broken car.
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I think people find you amazing because a) you hate part cannons b) you have a very down to earth logical mind and c) you keep on digging following that logic. You want to actually fix things without it costing a shitload of money. In my experience that makes you a minority. Many customers would pay for a new cluster and a still broken car.
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johnnyblue4799
Very nice video. Great stuff.
- AllData doesn't sell to DIYers here in the even more communist EU. I asked.
- Even in the automotive world two resistors of 120 ohm connected in parallel is not 120120=60, but 120120/(120 120) = 60 ohm. We know this much Mr. O. At least those who paid attention to physics classes in highschool! :)
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Very nice video. Great stuff.
- AllData doesn't sell to DIYers here in the even more communist EU. I asked.
- Even in the automotive world two resistors of 120 ohm connected in parallel is not 120120=60, but 120120/(120 120) = 60 ohm. We know this much Mr. O. At least those who paid attention to physics classes in highschool! :)
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Black3ternity
What I find real nice is the fact that everything on the network went to crap the can - but the SRS was still working and reporting. This is perfect security.
Kudos for Eric to fix it how he did instead of billing the customer a whole harness, a plug and six gazillion hours to trace all that in order to install the new harness.
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What I find real nice is the fact that everything on the network went to crap the can - but the SRS was still working and reporting. This is perfect security.
Kudos for Eric to fix it how he did instead of billing the customer a whole harness, a plug and six gazillion hours to trace all that in order to install the new harness.
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PeterJ-ij6mm
It's all down to experience, nobody is born with this knowledge it is gained over time with the willingness to keep learning. According to some people I do miracles with electronics but it's because I started my apprenticeship in 1968. Keep going Eric and hold on to that stubborn Never surrender attitude with your diagnostics.
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It's all down to experience, nobody is born with this knowledge it is gained over time with the willingness to keep learning. According to some people I do miracles with electronics but it's because I started my apprenticeship in 1968. Keep going Eric and hold on to that stubborn Never surrender attitude with your diagnostics.
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