Etiquette Expert Answers Etiquette Questions From Twitter - Tech Support - WIRED
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Date: 2024-08-07
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Comments and reviews: 20
daemonspring
2: 44 Passive aggressive, doesn't answer the question. If etiquette makes you mindless, rude and impractical, then you are merely a snooty slave of mindless traditions, failing to see the point in the exercise. There's a reason each aspect of etiquette was developed in the first place, and continuing to use irrelevant practices reveals those who merely copy and fake for appearances but do not understand.
0: 15 If you're an etiquette expert, you know this, and you still follow this rule, then you are not an expert. You are simply masking your personal preferences in a counterfeit cloak of objectivity. For a lot of people, etiquette becomes about being superior to others because you read a dusty, poorly written manual one hundred times. Reminds me a bit of certain tech loremasters who think that memorising a manual for a badly made tool gives them permission to sneer at new users who find such a poorly made tool confusing. It's about ego rather than getting things done.
Good etiquette feels invisible: It solves practical problems, like communicating that you are finished eating without the need to speak, or helping keep a room clean, or helping keep conversation flowing smoothly. It is explainable and justifiable. It makes everyone more comfortable. In a mature society, it shifts to meet changing needs. If it is confusing and uncomfortable, it is because someone at the table is immature and uses it to patch over their incomplete personality.
Not being able to explain the tradition you insist on following is a red flag.
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2: 44 Passive aggressive, doesn't answer the question. If etiquette makes you mindless, rude and impractical, then you are merely a snooty slave of mindless traditions, failing to see the point in the exercise. There's a reason each aspect of etiquette was developed in the first place, and continuing to use irrelevant practices reveals those who merely copy and fake for appearances but do not understand.
0: 15 If you're an etiquette expert, you know this, and you still follow this rule, then you are not an expert. You are simply masking your personal preferences in a counterfeit cloak of objectivity. For a lot of people, etiquette becomes about being superior to others because you read a dusty, poorly written manual one hundred times. Reminds me a bit of certain tech loremasters who think that memorising a manual for a badly made tool gives them permission to sneer at new users who find such a poorly made tool confusing. It's about ego rather than getting things done.
Good etiquette feels invisible: It solves practical problems, like communicating that you are finished eating without the need to speak, or helping keep a room clean, or helping keep conversation flowing smoothly. It is explainable and justifiable. It makes everyone more comfortable. In a mature society, it shifts to meet changing needs. If it is confusing and uncomfortable, it is because someone at the table is immature and uses it to patch over their incomplete personality.
Not being able to explain the tradition you insist on following is a red flag.
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lindaliriel
expanding on the Italy waiting thing:
Waiters will not bring you the bill unless you ask for it. Although it would be impolite to stay an inordinate amount of time, patrons of a restaurant are not rushed off as soon as they have finished! After dessert or when all the food has been had, the waiter will ask if you want a coffee or something along the lines of would you like anything else. If you are in a hurry this is a good time to say just the check, please or order your coffees or digestivi and then say with the check, please.
If, instead, you are not in a hurry, you can easily sit and chat for a while before going about your day.
When you DO want the check, you sometimes don't even need to SAY check, please: catch the eye of the waiter like in the video, and with the one hand the gentleman had at the height of his face, pretend to write something short and quick (like a tiny horizontal zigzag. That often is enough to tell the server that you would like the bill.
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expanding on the Italy waiting thing:
Waiters will not bring you the bill unless you ask for it. Although it would be impolite to stay an inordinate amount of time, patrons of a restaurant are not rushed off as soon as they have finished! After dessert or when all the food has been had, the waiter will ask if you want a coffee or something along the lines of would you like anything else. If you are in a hurry this is a good time to say just the check, please or order your coffees or digestivi and then say with the check, please.
If, instead, you are not in a hurry, you can easily sit and chat for a while before going about your day.
When you DO want the check, you sometimes don't even need to SAY check, please: catch the eye of the waiter like in the video, and with the one hand the gentleman had at the height of his face, pretend to write something short and quick (like a tiny horizontal zigzag. That often is enough to tell the server that you would like the bill.
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mangantasy289
05: 30 about that fork. I did it the american way since I was a kid, but live in central Europe. I can't even count the times I was scolded for this growing up, but I just could not get comfortable with keeping the fork in the same left hand. By now, I still do it like that (at least as soon as I'm not making a very concentrated effort. Since I'm an adult now, people may notice, but I hardly care. I'm out of scolding age.
And I did not even know that turning the fork between both hands is considered acceptable/normal in the US. So thank you! I'll definitely point that fact out next time someone nags me about it. Mostly my father still does so at times.
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05: 30 about that fork. I did it the american way since I was a kid, but live in central Europe. I can't even count the times I was scolded for this growing up, but I just could not get comfortable with keeping the fork in the same left hand. By now, I still do it like that (at least as soon as I'm not making a very concentrated effort. Since I'm an adult now, people may notice, but I hardly care. I'm out of scolding age.
And I did not even know that turning the fork between both hands is considered acceptable/normal in the US. So thank you! I'll definitely point that fact out next time someone nags me about it. Mostly my father still does so at times.
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Alblaka
One of the few X Support videos I can't get behind with. Answering Why do I need Etiquette with You do! is both very much non helpful and also a fair bit condescending. A more proper answer would have been some going on about creating a respectful and dignified atmosphere when just chowing down food isn't the primary goal (read, dinners with guests, a potential date, a boss, a business partner, and also leading into the how to put down your cutlery question by pointing out some etiquette is uses to communicate with waiters (so knowing how to put down your cutlery correctly prevents misunderstandings.
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One of the few X Support videos I can't get behind with. Answering Why do I need Etiquette with You do! is both very much non helpful and also a fair bit condescending. A more proper answer would have been some going on about creating a respectful and dignified atmosphere when just chowing down food isn't the primary goal (read, dinners with guests, a potential date, a boss, a business partner, and also leading into the how to put down your cutlery question by pointing out some etiquette is uses to communicate with waiters (so knowing how to put down your cutlery correctly prevents misunderstandings.
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nathanhaimson
Okay, question. I always see people in these types of videos holding their fork in their non-dominant hand, using the knife with their dominant hand, and either eating like that or switching their fork over to their dominant hand after cutting and then alternating back and forth. Am I the only one who uses my knife with my non dominant hand instead I'm right-handed, so I always have my fork in my right hand and cut with my left. It just feels easier. I don't think I've ever held my fork in my left hand.
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Okay, question. I always see people in these types of videos holding their fork in their non-dominant hand, using the knife with their dominant hand, and either eating like that or switching their fork over to their dominant hand after cutting and then alternating back and forth. Am I the only one who uses my knife with my non dominant hand instead I'm right-handed, so I always have my fork in my right hand and cut with my left. It just feels easier. I don't think I've ever held my fork in my left hand.
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pauljmorton
As a user of this Earth I do agree we all need to play by some shared etiquette such as don't kill people and don't drive when drunk because breaking those has devastating consequences. Even after watching this video I still fail to see how placing a fork tines up or tines down can have any consequences of anywhere near comparable magnitude.
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As a user of this Earth I do agree we all need to play by some shared etiquette such as don't kill people and don't drive when drunk because breaking those has devastating consequences. Even after watching this video I still fail to see how placing a fork tines up or tines down can have any consequences of anywhere near comparable magnitude.
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AsianDoug
Why do we need etiquette Well if you've ever had a meal with someone who burps in your face after eating some garlic bread, you'lll know why. They're simply sets of rules or guidelines to ensure that everyone at the table gets the food into their mouth in the least offensive way possible, while maintainig a clean outfit.
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Why do we need etiquette Well if you've ever had a meal with someone who burps in your face after eating some garlic bread, you'lll know why. They're simply sets of rules or guidelines to ensure that everyone at the table gets the food into their mouth in the least offensive way possible, while maintainig a clean outfit.
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epowell4211
I stand by the no elbows rule, as it decreases the chance of knocking over drinks, and often there really isn't enough room on the table for everyone to do that.
I was always told that etiquette rules were to make everyone's experience comfortable and pleasurable, and rules that do that are the ones I stick with.
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I stand by the no elbows rule, as it decreases the chance of knocking over drinks, and often there really isn't enough room on the table for everyone to do that.
I was always told that etiquette rules were to make everyone's experience comfortable and pleasurable, and rules that do that are the ones I stick with.
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maroqui05
Unpopular opinion here: I asked myself the no elbows question years ago and found the same answer.
Now I clap back at anyone who corrects me because I refuse to do something out of habit instead of common sense. Habits also don't let you evolve.
I must clarify: this does not apply to tradition to me.
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Unpopular opinion here: I asked myself the no elbows question years ago and found the same answer.
Now I clap back at anyone who corrects me because I refuse to do something out of habit instead of common sense. Habits also don't let you evolve.
I must clarify: this does not apply to tradition to me.
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MalfosRanger
More than how to stir tea or eat one’s food, I feel something has been lost with the normalization of first name basis across the board. You introduce yourself with your full name and without prompting everyone refers to you by your first name. It removes nuance to how we interact with one another.
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More than how to stir tea or eat one’s food, I feel something has been lost with the normalization of first name basis across the board. You introduce yourself with your full name and without prompting everyone refers to you by your first name. It removes nuance to how we interact with one another.
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MarkusHaindl
If you can't cling your glasses together you don't have fine glassware - you have absolute rubbish. Even the very thin glasses could withstand this if they are good quality, mouth-blown glassware. I don't know wether you should or shouldn't cheer your mates, but that explanation is wrong.
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If you can't cling your glasses together you don't have fine glassware - you have absolute rubbish. Even the very thin glasses could withstand this if they are good quality, mouth-blown glassware. I don't know wether you should or shouldn't cheer your mates, but that explanation is wrong.
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Lwize
IIRC, the American way to hold a knife & fork came out of 17th century France as used when under British rule. The British way further evolved after the American Revolution, whereas the American way stayed the same. This is part of the American/British divergence over the past 250 years.
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IIRC, the American way to hold a knife & fork came out of 17th century France as used when under British rule. The British way further evolved after the American Revolution, whereas the American way stayed the same. This is part of the American/British divergence over the past 250 years.
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ChitoUFO
Are we serious This is what is wrong with the world, we still praise this kind of stuff instead of shaming it.
Love that for answering the why does it matter, he doesn't address at all why, but just says you NEED it, it is IMPORTANT, and still we go wooOOOOoooa, what a gentleman.
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Are we serious This is what is wrong with the world, we still praise this kind of stuff instead of shaming it.
Love that for answering the why does it matter, he doesn't address at all why, but just says you NEED it, it is IMPORTANT, and still we go wooOOOOoooa, what a gentleman.
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deldridg
I look forward to showing this to my teenage children. They have been brought up with strict British etiquette here in Australia and love to deconstruct the horrifying table etiquette of their grandma (on my wife's side, naturally. It really is rather excellent sport, old chap!
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I look forward to showing this to my teenage children. They have been brought up with strict British etiquette here in Australia and love to deconstruct the horrifying table etiquette of their grandma (on my wife's side, naturally. It really is rather excellent sport, old chap!
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clanger_6870
I don't know if it's true (I like to think it is) but I heard a story that a man opened a door for a lady, she was offended and said
You don't need to open the door just because I'm a woman
He said
I didn't, I opened it because I'm a gentleman
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I don't know if it's true (I like to think it is) but I heard a story that a man opened a door for a lady, she was offended and said
You don't need to open the door just because I'm a woman
He said
I didn't, I opened it because I'm a gentleman
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thelordoftime803
Watching this made me realize I have a surprising amount of etiquette for someone who always considered himself a peasant with no regards for etiquette whatsoever. Most of these things just felt normal so I did them mostly to not be awkward.
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Watching this made me realize I have a surprising amount of etiquette for someone who always considered himself a peasant with no regards for etiquette whatsoever. Most of these things just felt normal so I did them mostly to not be awkward.
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peachraein3446
Gotta love how this was produced. They're aware enough of their audience and chose to make it light-hearted through theatrics for us to enjoy as opposed to being on the nose about it. Of course there's the British sarcasm, too.
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Gotta love how this was produced. They're aware enough of their audience and chose to make it light-hearted through theatrics for us to enjoy as opposed to being on the nose about it. Of course there's the British sarcasm, too.
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JoelReid
If no one got the fact that he never eats the food, that is also ettiquete. not only do you not eat in front of people who are not eating, but it would be rude of him to start a meal before his guests did. and we are his guests.
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If no one got the fact that he never eats the food, that is also ettiquete. not only do you not eat in front of people who are not eating, but it would be rude of him to start a meal before his guests did. and we are his guests.
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ChesterRGC
11: 00 honestly it feels less rude to say this has been a great day, but I'd like some time alone to clean everything up, to me it does feel passive-aggressive when anyone tries to express subtly that desire
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11: 00 honestly it feels less rude to say this has been a great day, but I'd like some time alone to clean everything up, to me it does feel passive-aggressive when anyone tries to express subtly that desire
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skinnydee1886
To get any house guests to leave, I would usually stand up and say this was very nice and we shall do this sometime again, but I've an early start in the morning, so thank you, and they get the message!
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To get any house guests to leave, I would usually stand up and say this was very nice and we shall do this sometime again, but I've an early start in the morning, so thank you, and they get the message!
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