What Even IS a Religion: Crash Course Religions #1
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Date: 2024-09-11
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Comments and reviews: 20
Pfhorrest
I think the most important thing in defining what is or isn't religion is not just making sure to capture what is a religion but especially to exclude anything that is not a religion. When I express my thoughts on how to define religion religious people usually push back that they don't meet that definition even though when I press them for details on what they believe, their answers fit within the criteria as I mean them and instead propose a definition that is so broad that basically everyone would count as religious, including myself who is avidly not just irreligious but anti-religious.
The one criterion I put forth that doesn't seem to generate much contention is that religion is a kind of social institution. This therefore excludes positions that you just happen to agree with yourself, even if you got them from somewhere else, so e. g. believing in Plato's Theory of Forms or living according to Kant's Categorical Imperative isn't necessarily religious, if that's just a view or practice that you agree with and not something being pushed by a social institution of some kind that you have to be on board with with to be part of that.
To the extent that, in the modern west, religion is reckoned as separate from state -- which I concede in most of the past, and in many places still, it is not, but we can just explicitly state that their religion and state are one, and treat the concepts separately -- I would then add the criterion that religion is not a governmental institution, meaning its business is not essentially deontic, concerned with justice and the distribution of goods. Some, even many religions do engage in such matters, but those are not what make them religions, otherwise every government -- being social institutions concerned with justice and the distribution of goods -- would count as a religion, which does not track with modern usage of the word, where there are many secular governments that are not religions.
Rather, religion in this sense is epistemic, concerned with knowledge and the distribution of truths, which makes it a kind of educational institution instead.
But we also clearly don't want to count every educational institution as a religion either. Some very religious people will try to argue that secular education is just a different religion counter to their own, but they're wrong, and the reason why gives us our last criterion: irreligious education at least nominally aims (to debatable success in different instances) to teach everything in a rational qua critical or anti-dogmatic manner, where nothing is ever (supposed to be) said to be the case merely because anyone said so, but always because, in principle, anyone could go look and see for themselves, empirically. It is the negation of that, the teaching about things transcending phenomenal experience, which therefore can only be believed in dogmatically because there is no way even in principle to check for yourself whether they are true or not, that constitutes the third criterion for religion.
These criteria therefore position religion as the epistemic analogue of the state's deontic role, where both are dogmatic social institutions, just in those two separate domains. It may sound odd to call the state dogmatic, but the defining characteristic of the state, as distinguished from stateless governance or anarchy, is that the state rules by fiat, laws being held binding merely because it says so, which is the defining quality of dogmatism.
So just as a state is any dogmatic governmental institution, a religion is any dogmatic educational institution.
And this may exclude many non-western social institutions from the category of religion, but if so, that is fine by me, because that categorization was foisted upon them by religious westerners who probably couldn't conscience the idea that there were irreligious peoples out there, rather than just differently-religious.
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I think the most important thing in defining what is or isn't religion is not just making sure to capture what is a religion but especially to exclude anything that is not a religion. When I express my thoughts on how to define religion religious people usually push back that they don't meet that definition even though when I press them for details on what they believe, their answers fit within the criteria as I mean them and instead propose a definition that is so broad that basically everyone would count as religious, including myself who is avidly not just irreligious but anti-religious.
The one criterion I put forth that doesn't seem to generate much contention is that religion is a kind of social institution. This therefore excludes positions that you just happen to agree with yourself, even if you got them from somewhere else, so e. g. believing in Plato's Theory of Forms or living according to Kant's Categorical Imperative isn't necessarily religious, if that's just a view or practice that you agree with and not something being pushed by a social institution of some kind that you have to be on board with with to be part of that.
To the extent that, in the modern west, religion is reckoned as separate from state -- which I concede in most of the past, and in many places still, it is not, but we can just explicitly state that their religion and state are one, and treat the concepts separately -- I would then add the criterion that religion is not a governmental institution, meaning its business is not essentially deontic, concerned with justice and the distribution of goods. Some, even many religions do engage in such matters, but those are not what make them religions, otherwise every government -- being social institutions concerned with justice and the distribution of goods -- would count as a religion, which does not track with modern usage of the word, where there are many secular governments that are not religions.
Rather, religion in this sense is epistemic, concerned with knowledge and the distribution of truths, which makes it a kind of educational institution instead.
But we also clearly don't want to count every educational institution as a religion either. Some very religious people will try to argue that secular education is just a different religion counter to their own, but they're wrong, and the reason why gives us our last criterion: irreligious education at least nominally aims (to debatable success in different instances) to teach everything in a rational qua critical or anti-dogmatic manner, where nothing is ever (supposed to be) said to be the case merely because anyone said so, but always because, in principle, anyone could go look and see for themselves, empirically. It is the negation of that, the teaching about things transcending phenomenal experience, which therefore can only be believed in dogmatically because there is no way even in principle to check for yourself whether they are true or not, that constitutes the third criterion for religion.
These criteria therefore position religion as the epistemic analogue of the state's deontic role, where both are dogmatic social institutions, just in those two separate domains. It may sound odd to call the state dogmatic, but the defining characteristic of the state, as distinguished from stateless governance or anarchy, is that the state rules by fiat, laws being held binding merely because it says so, which is the defining quality of dogmatism.
So just as a state is any dogmatic governmental institution, a religion is any dogmatic educational institution.
And this may exclude many non-western social institutions from the category of religion, but if so, that is fine by me, because that categorization was foisted upon them by religious westerners who probably couldn't conscience the idea that there were irreligious peoples out there, rather than just differently-religious.
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TheSkcube
As a Hindu, Yoga is and isn't a religious practice, it depends.
Theologically speaking, Yoga is a part of the orthodox group of Hindu schools(Astika, although even this classification depends, though most people divide it based on whether the school accepts the Vedas or not.
The yoga that is practiced today is more modern than most people think. Ultimately it depends on the person if it's just an exercise or something more spiritual.
Yoga got its start in the US from a more spiritual audience, and as it has been introduced to the mainstream, it has been secularized, so that it is more exercise than faith.
If it's got Hindu names for poses and it adherents believe in its spirituality, then it could be perceived as spiritual practice. If it has western names and it's practitioners believe it's just exercise, then it's just exercise.
Ultimately, the political and financial motives are more important in defining if yoga is religious or not, rather than the practice itself.
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As a Hindu, Yoga is and isn't a religious practice, it depends.
Theologically speaking, Yoga is a part of the orthodox group of Hindu schools(Astika, although even this classification depends, though most people divide it based on whether the school accepts the Vedas or not.
The yoga that is practiced today is more modern than most people think. Ultimately it depends on the person if it's just an exercise or something more spiritual.
Yoga got its start in the US from a more spiritual audience, and as it has been introduced to the mainstream, it has been secularized, so that it is more exercise than faith.
If it's got Hindu names for poses and it adherents believe in its spirituality, then it could be perceived as spiritual practice. If it has western names and it's practitioners believe it's just exercise, then it's just exercise.
Ultimately, the political and financial motives are more important in defining if yoga is religious or not, rather than the practice itself.
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stevesmith4901
The difficulty of defining a word is a key issue that Ludwig Wittgenstein addressed in his Philosophical Investigations, particularly in his analysis of the term game. He observed that there is no rigid, clear-cut definition for the word game because any definition one proposes either excludes something we would ordinarily consider a game or includes something we would not. In the end, Wittgenstein concluded that members of a category (like games) are not related by one common feature but by overlapping similarities, which he called family resemblances. These resemblances form a network where certain games share traits with others, though not all games share the same traits. This insight, therefore, suggests that terms like religion can be understood in a similar way, where they resist a single definition and are better grasped through these kinds of flexible, overlapping connections. What do you think Do you agree
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The difficulty of defining a word is a key issue that Ludwig Wittgenstein addressed in his Philosophical Investigations, particularly in his analysis of the term game. He observed that there is no rigid, clear-cut definition for the word game because any definition one proposes either excludes something we would ordinarily consider a game or includes something we would not. In the end, Wittgenstein concluded that members of a category (like games) are not related by one common feature but by overlapping similarities, which he called family resemblances. These resemblances form a network where certain games share traits with others, though not all games share the same traits. This insight, therefore, suggests that terms like religion can be understood in a similar way, where they resist a single definition and are better grasped through these kinds of flexible, overlapping connections. What do you think Do you agree
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thomasellisonfilms
I think the point about how any definition of religion necessarily relates to a particular interested party. A viewpoint that is often overlooked is Secularism, which is admittedly also a difficult to define ideology’ that most of us in Western countries live and breath (and therefore have a difficult time seeing its contours. When we ask, what is religion much of the time we are doing from a Secular point of view, and the answers that we find are necessarily going to be tailored towards Secular interests. I don’t even have an example of how this works in practice, nor am I saying this as a non-Secular, or even particularly religious’ person. I just think it’s worth being self-aware of the fact that studying religion as 21st century Secular people, the answers we find will often conform to what we expect religion to be in the first place from this outlook
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I think the point about how any definition of religion necessarily relates to a particular interested party. A viewpoint that is often overlooked is Secularism, which is admittedly also a difficult to define ideology’ that most of us in Western countries live and breath (and therefore have a difficult time seeing its contours. When we ask, what is religion much of the time we are doing from a Secular point of view, and the answers that we find are necessarily going to be tailored towards Secular interests. I don’t even have an example of how this works in practice, nor am I saying this as a non-Secular, or even particularly religious’ person. I just think it’s worth being self-aware of the fact that studying religion as 21st century Secular people, the answers we find will often conform to what we expect religion to be in the first place from this outlook
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ZestonN
If you go by the Sanskrit meaning of Yoga,
Anything considered a Path or a Practice, is a form of Yoga.
Bhakti Yoga is the Practice of Honoring The Divine Through Rituals and Prayers.
Karma Yoga is The Path of Deeds, Duty, or Proper Actions. Volunteering, Helping The Less Fortunate, Serving Your Country, Family, or Business.
Jnana Yoga the Path of Study, Wisdom, Truth. Buddhism came out of the Jnana Yoga Tradition, and possibly connected to the word Gnosis and Gnosticism.
Religion can also be Whatever Path or Practice You Hold Most Dear.
I consider myself a Pagan Multiversalist. I think there are Multiple Universes, Multiple Forms of The Divine, and Multiple Valid Paths.
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If you go by the Sanskrit meaning of Yoga,
Anything considered a Path or a Practice, is a form of Yoga.
Bhakti Yoga is the Practice of Honoring The Divine Through Rituals and Prayers.
Karma Yoga is The Path of Deeds, Duty, or Proper Actions. Volunteering, Helping The Less Fortunate, Serving Your Country, Family, or Business.
Jnana Yoga the Path of Study, Wisdom, Truth. Buddhism came out of the Jnana Yoga Tradition, and possibly connected to the word Gnosis and Gnosticism.
Religion can also be Whatever Path or Practice You Hold Most Dear.
I consider myself a Pagan Multiversalist. I think there are Multiple Universes, Multiple Forms of The Divine, and Multiple Valid Paths.
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kainingyao7873
The most important thing about religion is that they are templates of beliefs, that are filled out differently depending on the denomination or personal factors related to it. Religion is more or less a major social construct that is interconnected to culture, so much so that it is really difficult to find out which came first chicken-or-egg style. People can still have partake in and have some sense of pride in a culture even if they aren't religious. Thus, in my opinion, culture came first, and people develop religion as a response to it as they develop new beliefs about the world, then religion becomes deeply ingrained into culture as it in turn influences it.
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The most important thing about religion is that they are templates of beliefs, that are filled out differently depending on the denomination or personal factors related to it. Religion is more or less a major social construct that is interconnected to culture, so much so that it is really difficult to find out which came first chicken-or-egg style. People can still have partake in and have some sense of pride in a culture even if they aren't religious. Thus, in my opinion, culture came first, and people develop religion as a response to it as they develop new beliefs about the world, then religion becomes deeply ingrained into culture as it in turn influences it.
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akhragee
ultimate concern I don't expect humanity to remotely approach surviving to the heat death, much less myself personally. my _immediate_ concern is maintaining my own happiness, mental and physical health, and longer-term security. my _broader_ concerns are contributing to others' experiences of same in ways that don't compromise my own; and broader still, working in whatever small ways I can to build a world where none of this is a struggle for anyone. but _ultimate_ is so far beyond any of that, it seems a fool's errand to even contemplate.
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ultimate concern I don't expect humanity to remotely approach surviving to the heat death, much less myself personally. my _immediate_ concern is maintaining my own happiness, mental and physical health, and longer-term security. my _broader_ concerns are contributing to others' experiences of same in ways that don't compromise my own; and broader still, working in whatever small ways I can to build a world where none of this is a struggle for anyone. but _ultimate_ is so far beyond any of that, it seems a fool's errand to even contemplate.
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Ngamotu83
Answering this question has proven so difficult within academia that there is a growing number of scholars who question and even dismiss the notion that religion is a distinct phenomenon. Instead, they argue that what we think of as religion or religious, is really just various aspects of normal society that can't really be separated out from everything else. It's an interesting position, and it is one I'm finding myself increasingly in agreement with.
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Answering this question has proven so difficult within academia that there is a growing number of scholars who question and even dismiss the notion that religion is a distinct phenomenon. Instead, they argue that what we think of as religion or religious, is really just various aspects of normal society that can't really be separated out from everything else. It's an interesting position, and it is one I'm finding myself increasingly in agreement with.
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lorenzreiher1407
Yes finally! Crash Course American History is one of the most valuable and well-presented pieces of education I know and helped me tremendously (speaking as a foreign ESL teacher in training. John Green is so enthusiastic about teaching and learning and also so knowledgable, I am so happy to be able to see another of its kind, judging by the first episode. Plus, I now feel really compelled to think about whether I have an ultimate concern.
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Yes finally! Crash Course American History is one of the most valuable and well-presented pieces of education I know and helped me tremendously (speaking as a foreign ESL teacher in training. John Green is so enthusiastic about teaching and learning and also so knowledgable, I am so happy to be able to see another of its kind, judging by the first episode. Plus, I now feel really compelled to think about whether I have an ultimate concern.
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crash_course
I have a conjecture why the explanation of religion is complicated.
It’s because we’re defining religion with words and not mathematical expressions.
I think religion is a multi variable function, that aims maximize some quantity.
All the definitions you mention I think mention some of this variables, but none of which encompass all of it.
Anyways, that’s my take!
I really love your show.
Keep it up.
ChefQ
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I have a conjecture why the explanation of religion is complicated.
It’s because we’re defining religion with words and not mathematical expressions.
I think religion is a multi variable function, that aims maximize some quantity.
All the definitions you mention I think mention some of this variables, but none of which encompass all of it.
Anyways, that’s my take!
I really love your show.
Keep it up.
ChefQ
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crash_course
So excited for this series, I have always been fascinated by religion, and while I don't belong to any particular religion or really truly believe any in a spiritual sense, I thoroughly enjoy learning about them all and engaging with religious people whenever the opportunity arises. Religion is so intertwined with history and the human experience, I think it's a shame that more people do not educate themselves on the matter.
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So excited for this series, I have always been fascinated by religion, and while I don't belong to any particular religion or really truly believe any in a spiritual sense, I thoroughly enjoy learning about them all and engaging with religious people whenever the opportunity arises. Religion is so intertwined with history and the human experience, I think it's a shame that more people do not educate themselves on the matter.
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Nyxelestia
I'd summarized religion as what your beliefs about the immaterial world do and don't mean for your material world. It's specifically that connection between those abstract, esoteric beliefs, and the impacts these beliefs have on your day to day living and philosophies. One or the other alone don't make a religion, because religion is specifically the thing that's existing between them.
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I'd summarized religion as what your beliefs about the immaterial world do and don't mean for your material world. It's specifically that connection between those abstract, esoteric beliefs, and the impacts these beliefs have on your day to day living and philosophies. One or the other alone don't make a religion, because religion is specifically the thing that's existing between them.
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jenniferburns2530
Thanks for a shout out to non-credal religions! It is always a challenge to explain to people who define their religion based on a creed that it is possible to unite with others on the basis of action and practice rather than a single holy book, leader, or statement. This first episode is so respectful of the diversity of beliefs. I look forward to the next episode.
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Thanks for a shout out to non-credal religions! It is always a challenge to explain to people who define their religion based on a creed that it is possible to unite with others on the basis of action and practice rather than a single holy book, leader, or statement. This first episode is so respectful of the diversity of beliefs. I look forward to the next episode.
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andrewbogard2411
I'm loving this series so far, I'm a Christian but I want to learn about other people's religions for multiple reasons, one it will help me personally with my testimony if I knew how to approach a person, but I foremost I want to be respectful and when/if we get in a debate about Christianity and there own personal religion I won't be ignorant on the subject.
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I'm loving this series so far, I'm a Christian but I want to learn about other people's religions for multiple reasons, one it will help me personally with my testimony if I knew how to approach a person, but I foremost I want to be respectful and when/if we get in a debate about Christianity and there own personal religion I won't be ignorant on the subject.
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marissawhite8140
My ultimate concern is the well being of other and the world. I put time into the loving God part of my Christianity but I am ultimately concerned with how I can love and support others. This concern is closely followed and tied to my concern for our planet and taking care of it. Ao excited to learn more about all religions in this series!
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My ultimate concern is the well being of other and the world. I put time into the loving God part of my Christianity but I am ultimately concerned with how I can love and support others. This concern is closely followed and tied to my concern for our planet and taking care of it. Ao excited to learn more about all religions in this series!
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CozyPiper
I feel like peace is my ultimate concern. I try to have peace in my life and work towards less violence in our world. It’s not so much my purpose but a greatest wish. Reading that it sounds like a beauty pageant answer! But I came to this wish through a lot of soul searching. It’s a focal point that influences my decisions like a north star.
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I feel like peace is my ultimate concern. I try to have peace in my life and work towards less violence in our world. It’s not so much my purpose but a greatest wish. Reading that it sounds like a beauty pageant answer! But I came to this wish through a lot of soul searching. It’s a focal point that influences my decisions like a north star.
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00Kuja00
Depends on the context. The term yoga is very fluid and can mean, and has meant, many things through out history. As an historian in history of religions with a foucs on yoga, we try to move away from essentialism when trying to understand lived traditions. Done my masters degree in this subject, so I believe I know what I am talking about.
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Depends on the context. The term yoga is very fluid and can mean, and has meant, many things through out history. As an historian in history of religions with a foucs on yoga, we try to move away from essentialism when trying to understand lived traditions. Done my masters degree in this subject, so I believe I know what I am talking about.
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felinomancer
I think it's rather interesting that there haven't been a major, or at least widely-accepted new religion being founded since the early 19th century (disclaimer: to my knowledge anyway. Although if asked to bet, I'm going with Swiftism or Applism.
Imagine if future religious texts would contain phrases like skibidi and no cap.
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I think it's rather interesting that there haven't been a major, or at least widely-accepted new religion being founded since the early 19th century (disclaimer: to my knowledge anyway. Although if asked to bet, I'm going with Swiftism or Applism.
Imagine if future religious texts would contain phrases like skibidi and no cap.
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zolacnomiko
Aaaaaahhhh I'm so happy to have John back in a CrashCourse video! CrashCourse World History was my entryway into the Nerdfighter/Complexly universe, and I've always enjoyed John's CrashCourse style. This first episode was fantastic and I'm excited for the rest of the series! (Mahalo piha for the Hawaii shoutout in the very first ep)
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Aaaaaahhhh I'm so happy to have John back in a CrashCourse video! CrashCourse World History was my entryway into the Nerdfighter/Complexly universe, and I've always enjoyed John's CrashCourse style. This first episode was fantastic and I'm excited for the rest of the series! (Mahalo piha for the Hawaii shoutout in the very first ep)
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Njald
Next week, how many are there.
CrashCourse in a World where they had to rely on engagement and ad revenue:
We rank all religions in our EPIC Tier list! You won't believe who is in S-tier! with a thumbnail of an excited John Green pointing backwards meme-style to an AI generated image of Odin with his ravens.
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Next week, how many are there.
CrashCourse in a World where they had to rely on engagement and ad revenue:
We rank all religions in our EPIC Tier list! You won't believe who is in S-tier! with a thumbnail of an excited John Green pointing backwards meme-style to an AI generated image of Odin with his ravens.
reply
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