You're Wasting Your Money On Protein (NEW RESEARCH)
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Date: 2025-10-11
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Comments and reviews: 20
romainl2268
I'm certainly no expert on health or body building, but something comes to mind when I hear about high protein diets: It seems to me we've been ingrained with the idea that we absolutely need high amounts of protein, and preferably complete proteins (found in meat, dairy, eggs, soy, quinoa) which contains all essential amino-acids rather than incomplete proteins found in legumes, nuts, seeds, mushrooms, vegetables.
As I understand it, the body synthesizes human proteins from amino-acids, which are the building blocks for all types of protein, and not directly from ingested proteins. That means it has to degrade those proteins into amino-acids first to be able to use them. This digestive process costs energy, and generates metabolic waste (toxins, which must then be eliminated, primarily by the kidneys.
During protein metabolism, nitrogenous wastes such as urea, uric acid, ammonia, and creatinine are produced. These compounds are not utilized by the human body and are usually excreted by the kidney. Wiki article Protein toxicity, check it out it's interesting.
Amino-acids on the other hand are present in a variety of foods, and not just high-protein ones. Notably, leafy greens are a great source of various amino-acids.
On a somewhat related note, see how muscular and powerful gorillas are, eating almost nothing but plants.
So from what I heard, from a health or even from a body-building standpoint it could probably be better to have a large portion of our diet consisting of leafy greens rather than high protein foods. The problem with that being that the amount required would be quite important.
And to remedy that, green juices seem to be an interesting option: Juices made primarily of leafy greens (raw spinach for example, mixed with some fruits and/or vegetables (apples, carrots, maybe a bit of ginger and/or turmeric added in, and you've got a concentrate of a lot of essential amino-acids and vitamins, way better than protein shakes and energy drinks in my opinion.
I know it will seem weird to many, but I've had those types of juices for a while, and I promise they are not so bad. :) And I could feel it did me good.
So yeah, thanks for coming to my Ted talk, and just to clarify: No, I'm not a vegan, in fact I love meat and cheese, probably a bit too much. I'm also French, that might come into play. :)
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I'm certainly no expert on health or body building, but something comes to mind when I hear about high protein diets: It seems to me we've been ingrained with the idea that we absolutely need high amounts of protein, and preferably complete proteins (found in meat, dairy, eggs, soy, quinoa) which contains all essential amino-acids rather than incomplete proteins found in legumes, nuts, seeds, mushrooms, vegetables.
As I understand it, the body synthesizes human proteins from amino-acids, which are the building blocks for all types of protein, and not directly from ingested proteins. That means it has to degrade those proteins into amino-acids first to be able to use them. This digestive process costs energy, and generates metabolic waste (toxins, which must then be eliminated, primarily by the kidneys.
During protein metabolism, nitrogenous wastes such as urea, uric acid, ammonia, and creatinine are produced. These compounds are not utilized by the human body and are usually excreted by the kidney. Wiki article Protein toxicity, check it out it's interesting.
Amino-acids on the other hand are present in a variety of foods, and not just high-protein ones. Notably, leafy greens are a great source of various amino-acids.
On a somewhat related note, see how muscular and powerful gorillas are, eating almost nothing but plants.
So from what I heard, from a health or even from a body-building standpoint it could probably be better to have a large portion of our diet consisting of leafy greens rather than high protein foods. The problem with that being that the amount required would be quite important.
And to remedy that, green juices seem to be an interesting option: Juices made primarily of leafy greens (raw spinach for example, mixed with some fruits and/or vegetables (apples, carrots, maybe a bit of ginger and/or turmeric added in, and you've got a concentrate of a lot of essential amino-acids and vitamins, way better than protein shakes and energy drinks in my opinion.
I know it will seem weird to many, but I've had those types of juices for a while, and I promise they are not so bad. :) And I could feel it did me good.
So yeah, thanks for coming to my Ted talk, and just to clarify: No, I'm not a vegan, in fact I love meat and cheese, probably a bit too much. I'm also French, that might come into play. :)
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Patrik2569
Bro. Saying: I haven't noticed change in my gains means absolutely nothing!
You aren't monthly measuring lean muscle mass and you have no comparison. You can't know how you would grow in alternative universe eating more protein. And even if you were tracking LBM weekly with absolute precision, muscle growth over time isn't linear but logarithmic. Over time, you gain more slowly anyway. So unless you are tracking your LBM while fitting your data into logarithmic curve and seeing no divination, you can't tell if your rate of gains is affected by the lack of protein. Not to mention we are assuming you wouldn't change any other variables like intensity, exercise selection, sleep or stress, which most people change constantly to some degree.
So don't use it as argument as you simply don't have the data. Just stick to the studies, not personal experience. The study you highlight looked at it in a scientific way and found that sufficient intake is below 1g/lb, but there are other studies showing that more protein makes a positive difference. These contradictions are expected as it's extremely hard to measure, not only because of all the variables in our lives, but also the increase of protein intake from 0. 5 to 1 g/lb is likely a small boost in muscle growth and quite hard to spot in such noisy data.
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Bro. Saying: I haven't noticed change in my gains means absolutely nothing!
You aren't monthly measuring lean muscle mass and you have no comparison. You can't know how you would grow in alternative universe eating more protein. And even if you were tracking LBM weekly with absolute precision, muscle growth over time isn't linear but logarithmic. Over time, you gain more slowly anyway. So unless you are tracking your LBM while fitting your data into logarithmic curve and seeing no divination, you can't tell if your rate of gains is affected by the lack of protein. Not to mention we are assuming you wouldn't change any other variables like intensity, exercise selection, sleep or stress, which most people change constantly to some degree.
So don't use it as argument as you simply don't have the data. Just stick to the studies, not personal experience. The study you highlight looked at it in a scientific way and found that sufficient intake is below 1g/lb, but there are other studies showing that more protein makes a positive difference. These contradictions are expected as it's extremely hard to measure, not only because of all the variables in our lives, but also the increase of protein intake from 0. 5 to 1 g/lb is likely a small boost in muscle growth and quite hard to spot in such noisy data.
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DarkMeyer777
I'm Asian and in my late teenage years, when I told my grandma I wanted to gym to grow big, she simply said, eat more rice and you can grow.
That's when I think back, labourers in the past who got big ate alot of rice and they were kind of stoic size as they were mainly labourers, not bodybuilders. Besides, meat was expensive back in the day. So most of them ate rice with sauce, vegetables, dofu, soy milk.
I'm now a rather natural weight lifter, quite strong and won't say perfect physique, but I just eat normal like any Asian would eat. The last supplement I took was like 16 years ago, protein shake.
On days I train, I may eat slightly more chicken meat, that's all. But I still strive for 2 servings of vege and 2 servings of fruits a day. In fact, in my rest days, I only eat 2 meals a day.
In fact, I would say I drank alot of milk in the past to bulk up but now, I've cut down on milk due to health issue and yet, I seemed to be growing bigger in size and lifting more
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I'm Asian and in my late teenage years, when I told my grandma I wanted to gym to grow big, she simply said, eat more rice and you can grow.
That's when I think back, labourers in the past who got big ate alot of rice and they were kind of stoic size as they were mainly labourers, not bodybuilders. Besides, meat was expensive back in the day. So most of them ate rice with sauce, vegetables, dofu, soy milk.
I'm now a rather natural weight lifter, quite strong and won't say perfect physique, but I just eat normal like any Asian would eat. The last supplement I took was like 16 years ago, protein shake.
On days I train, I may eat slightly more chicken meat, that's all. But I still strive for 2 servings of vege and 2 servings of fruits a day. In fact, in my rest days, I only eat 2 meals a day.
In fact, I would say I drank alot of milk in the past to bulk up but now, I've cut down on milk due to health issue and yet, I seemed to be growing bigger in size and lifting more
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BeastModeFitness25
I really question this new claim that low protein gives the same muscle gains and that plant protein is just as good as animal protein. It fits a pattern we’ve seen before. Remember when vegetable oil was pushed as heart-healthy and now it’s one of the worst things you can eat Or when eggs were demonized because of cholesterol, only for us to find out they actually raise good cholesterol Same thing when fat got blamed for everything while sugar quietly got a free pass.
This all points to the same cycle marketing, money, and ideology shaping science. There’s a lot of incentive to push certain diets, especially ones that make someone richer or serve a political agenda.
And honestly, a big red flag here: at the very start of the video, he dismissed two studies because they showed too good of results for protein. Instead of examining them, he just threw them out. That’s not objective science that’s bias.
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I really question this new claim that low protein gives the same muscle gains and that plant protein is just as good as animal protein. It fits a pattern we’ve seen before. Remember when vegetable oil was pushed as heart-healthy and now it’s one of the worst things you can eat Or when eggs were demonized because of cholesterol, only for us to find out they actually raise good cholesterol Same thing when fat got blamed for everything while sugar quietly got a free pass.
This all points to the same cycle marketing, money, and ideology shaping science. There’s a lot of incentive to push certain diets, especially ones that make someone richer or serve a political agenda.
And honestly, a big red flag here: at the very start of the video, he dismissed two studies because they showed too good of results for protein. Instead of examining them, he just threw them out. That’s not objective science that’s bias.
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jeremy_ethier
For the record, I feel it's very true that these insanely high amounts of protein which is being promoted by the gym community is unneccesary. However, I read the study and am very confused. The study states. additional protein ingestion (1. 6 g of protein/kg/day or higher) leads to small increments in lean body mass. lower body muscle strength was also marginally increased by additional protein ingestion in studies with RE training. Bench press strength, handgrip strength, and performance in physical or functional tests were slightly or not affected by ingestion of additional protein. Noteworthy, 80% of the studies reported subjects ingesting at least 1. 2 g of protein/kg/day in their habitual diets.
This seems contrary to what you said in the video
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For the record, I feel it's very true that these insanely high amounts of protein which is being promoted by the gym community is unneccesary. However, I read the study and am very confused. The study states. additional protein ingestion (1. 6 g of protein/kg/day or higher) leads to small increments in lean body mass. lower body muscle strength was also marginally increased by additional protein ingestion in studies with RE training. Bench press strength, handgrip strength, and performance in physical or functional tests were slightly or not affected by ingestion of additional protein. Noteworthy, 80% of the studies reported subjects ingesting at least 1. 2 g of protein/kg/day in their habitual diets.
This seems contrary to what you said in the video
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topgearsgear
> Calories make the gains rather than the protein
> People in a deficet can grow muscle
> Most people don't make many gains while consistently going to the gym
> Those same people generally have low protein / Carlorie diets
Like you can look at all of the science around bodybuilding and health, Things contradict constantly, Most studies can't be replicated. Ultimately just go with what most people believe and do and you will be fine, IE get some carbs, Lift Hard & Eat lots of protein in a small caloric surplus if possible. It's not worth any more thought than that as clearly shown here the science is hardly scientific if It's contradicted by the majority of other well performed double blind placebo controlled studies.
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> Calories make the gains rather than the protein
> People in a deficet can grow muscle
> Most people don't make many gains while consistently going to the gym
> Those same people generally have low protein / Carlorie diets
Like you can look at all of the science around bodybuilding and health, Things contradict constantly, Most studies can't be replicated. Ultimately just go with what most people believe and do and you will be fine, IE get some carbs, Lift Hard & Eat lots of protein in a small caloric surplus if possible. It's not worth any more thought than that as clearly shown here the science is hardly scientific if It's contradicted by the majority of other well performed double blind placebo controlled studies.
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brotendo
Dude there were HUGE caveats in the study. For starters, the baseline for their subjects was already 1. 2g/kg bodyweight per day. They said This is 50% higher than current protein ingestion recommendations for healthy adults. Such observation might explain the small effect of the intervention on the different outcomes.
A lot of the trials in the meta analysis took place only 8-12 weeks, and muscle mass measurements varied (dexa, calipers, etc) so that's a huge variance for margin for error. The big takeaway in the discussion of the paper is that extra protein above 1. 6g/kg bodyweight per day is probably not necessary, but that's still more than what the average person eats per day.
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Dude there were HUGE caveats in the study. For starters, the baseline for their subjects was already 1. 2g/kg bodyweight per day. They said This is 50% higher than current protein ingestion recommendations for healthy adults. Such observation might explain the small effect of the intervention on the different outcomes.
A lot of the trials in the meta analysis took place only 8-12 weeks, and muscle mass measurements varied (dexa, calipers, etc) so that's a huge variance for margin for error. The big takeaway in the discussion of the paper is that extra protein above 1. 6g/kg bodyweight per day is probably not necessary, but that's still more than what the average person eats per day.
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ScienceSummary
Definitely a good idea to base your nutrition on a n=1 case of a guy eating 90 g of protein and a small handful of studies.
. if you get your protein from meat a lot because then you're harming fellow humans due to future climate impacts as well as the animals who have miserable short lives.
But for real a review showed many years ago already that around 1. 5 g/kg seems to already max out protein for muscle-building so this isn't news and the study linked above found the same again.
The question is whether this also applies to e. g. advanced trained lifters too and some immediately act upon any clues that it doesn't which for many or most is probably not a good idea.
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Definitely a good idea to base your nutrition on a n=1 case of a guy eating 90 g of protein and a small handful of studies.
. if you get your protein from meat a lot because then you're harming fellow humans due to future climate impacts as well as the animals who have miserable short lives.
But for real a review showed many years ago already that around 1. 5 g/kg seems to already max out protein for muscle-building so this isn't news and the study linked above found the same again.
The question is whether this also applies to e. g. advanced trained lifters too and some immediately act upon any clues that it doesn't which for many or most is probably not a good idea.
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SerAlthur
I've heard about this topic over the years and the consensus seems to always end up at just about or below 2g/kg protein being roughly optimal for lifters but the min-maxing is always a bit arbitarty.
More importantly, this video relies on a study that seems inconclusive to me. It raises questions regarding beginner lifters vs experienced/elites in how much protein intake can affect beginner more if it's higher compared to the latter. It could very much be possible that lowering protein intake after a certain point(after enough experience) won't result in gain loss, but may be more important in the beginning of the journey where muscle mass is still relatively low.
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I've heard about this topic over the years and the consensus seems to always end up at just about or below 2g/kg protein being roughly optimal for lifters but the min-maxing is always a bit arbitarty.
More importantly, this video relies on a study that seems inconclusive to me. It raises questions regarding beginner lifters vs experienced/elites in how much protein intake can affect beginner more if it's higher compared to the latter. It could very much be possible that lowering protein intake after a certain point(after enough experience) won't result in gain loss, but may be more important in the beginning of the journey where muscle mass is still relatively low.
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peacewalker991
At first I wasn’t sold but then it just made sense. I never considered protein to be fuel - but personally, I noticed my recovery to be through the roof when I meaningfully increased my protein intake. Furthermore, when I dieted, without protein and fiber, I would have had no chance.
However, what actually built muscle for me Just more calories. More protein or more carbs, just eating more was the key. After essentially 2 years of constantly eating below maintenance to slim down, my muscle gains flatlined so much that I thought that was the end of the journey - but eating more helped me put on more size in 3 months than in nearly 1 year.
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At first I wasn’t sold but then it just made sense. I never considered protein to be fuel - but personally, I noticed my recovery to be through the roof when I meaningfully increased my protein intake. Furthermore, when I dieted, without protein and fiber, I would have had no chance.
However, what actually built muscle for me Just more calories. More protein or more carbs, just eating more was the key. After essentially 2 years of constantly eating below maintenance to slim down, my muscle gains flatlined so much that I thought that was the end of the journey - but eating more helped me put on more size in 3 months than in nearly 1 year.
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Thorz_PunchingBag
Genetics, workout style/intensity, lifting experience, water intake, etc. There are so many variables to consider when looking at muscle gain studies. The video contradicts itself by calling out extra protein products as unnecessary and then advertising a protein powder to add extra protein. I lift to put on as much size as possible so I'm going to train differently and eat differently compared to somebody looking to get/stay lean. Telling people more protein is bad, is poor taste and click bait. For 99% of people, more LEAN protein in their diet will be beneficial compared to increasing fat/calories.
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Genetics, workout style/intensity, lifting experience, water intake, etc. There are so many variables to consider when looking at muscle gain studies. The video contradicts itself by calling out extra protein products as unnecessary and then advertising a protein powder to add extra protein. I lift to put on as much size as possible so I'm going to train differently and eat differently compared to somebody looking to get/stay lean. Telling people more protein is bad, is poor taste and click bait. For 99% of people, more LEAN protein in their diet will be beneficial compared to increasing fat/calories.
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catitude4
No one should be eating these protein bars which are really candy bars. That is not protein, that is highly processed food. Protein is real food, not something manufactured in a plant. Just because they say it's research or a study doesn't make it true, there is an agenda, just look at who funded the study. Therefore don't believe everything that calls itself a study. You need more protein as you get older or you lose muscle. Many don't get enough and get weaker and weaker. NO you are not wasting money on protein, but eat real protein not candy.
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No one should be eating these protein bars which are really candy bars. That is not protein, that is highly processed food. Protein is real food, not something manufactured in a plant. Just because they say it's research or a study doesn't make it true, there is an agenda, just look at who funded the study. Therefore don't believe everything that calls itself a study. You need more protein as you get older or you lose muscle. Many don't get enough and get weaker and weaker. NO you are not wasting money on protein, but eat real protein not candy.
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elbowstrike
Now that I’m in my 40s if I don’t eat a high protein diet that is the only time that my body starts to feel old.
Protein improves my overall recovery. 1-2 scoops of whey in the morning before work and 1-2 before bed, and I recover from work like I’m a teenager again.
As soon as I stop, the tendon and joint pain starts to add up. Scrapes and cuts stop healing so fast.
I think there is more to this than simply how quickly your body builds additional muscle tissue.
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Now that I’m in my 40s if I don’t eat a high protein diet that is the only time that my body starts to feel old.
Protein improves my overall recovery. 1-2 scoops of whey in the morning before work and 1-2 before bed, and I recover from work like I’m a teenager again.
As soon as I stop, the tendon and joint pain starts to add up. Scrapes and cuts stop healing so fast.
I think there is more to this than simply how quickly your body builds additional muscle tissue.
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fadingship935
You will find various studies contradicting each other for whether you need high protein or just moderate. Reality is, its just like training volume and frequency. It vastly depends on the individuals genetics and lifestyle. Some people can utilize protein very well and able to build/maintain muscle with moderate amount of protein. Others actually benefit from very high protein. Most people are in between. Not sure where you stand Just eat high protein, its not harmful.
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You will find various studies contradicting each other for whether you need high protein or just moderate. Reality is, its just like training volume and frequency. It vastly depends on the individuals genetics and lifestyle. Some people can utilize protein very well and able to build/maintain muscle with moderate amount of protein. Others actually benefit from very high protein. Most people are in between. Not sure where you stand Just eat high protein, its not harmful.
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danross-z7j
Me I just eat with no concern on how much protein and fats except carbs (max 150 gms. I keep pumping Iron and no more concern on muscle gain or not. For me as long as I can lift and go the gym regularly that's ok it means I don't need to go the doctor. I'm 68 and my goal is to maintain a healthy body not a body of a body builder. Honestly I had a good muscle in my upper and lower body with a broad shoulder V-shape body. I am 130lbs, 5ft 5 inches with 29 inch waist.
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Me I just eat with no concern on how much protein and fats except carbs (max 150 gms. I keep pumping Iron and no more concern on muscle gain or not. For me as long as I can lift and go the gym regularly that's ok it means I don't need to go the doctor. I'm 68 and my goal is to maintain a healthy body not a body of a body builder. Honestly I had a good muscle in my upper and lower body with a broad shoulder V-shape body. I am 130lbs, 5ft 5 inches with 29 inch waist.
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ambernichols8603
Plant protein isn't bad of course, BUT, it generally isn't as beneficial, gram for gram as animal protein due to molecular differences that result in less bioavailability and digestibility. Also, for the most part they are not complete proteins, lacking some essential amino acids. Bottom line, if a person is intent on consuming only plant based protein, they need to be dedicated to doing their food research to ensure they are getting all the eaas.
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Plant protein isn't bad of course, BUT, it generally isn't as beneficial, gram for gram as animal protein due to molecular differences that result in less bioavailability and digestibility. Also, for the most part they are not complete proteins, lacking some essential amino acids. Bottom line, if a person is intent on consuming only plant based protein, they need to be dedicated to doing their food research to ensure they are getting all the eaas.
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MichaelAachen
The point of a protein shake was always to provide the body with liquid protein that's digested and absorbed much faster than if you ate a slab of turkey, because muscles grow more effectively the faster you supply protein to muscles immediately after a workout. Those who thought the primary purpose of protein supplements was to boost the QUANTITY of protein you're consuming, including the author of the video, were just ignorant.
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The point of a protein shake was always to provide the body with liquid protein that's digested and absorbed much faster than if you ate a slab of turkey, because muscles grow more effectively the faster you supply protein to muscles immediately after a workout. Those who thought the primary purpose of protein supplements was to boost the QUANTITY of protein you're consuming, including the author of the video, were just ignorant.
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davidgavranic5044
I mean, Mentzer talked about this decades ago. The math is simple. If you gained 10kg of muscle a year, which is VERY good, that equates to about 27 grams of weight gain a day, and muscle is mostly water, not protein, so your body will turn only about 6-7 grams of protein into muscle tissue a day. Now with that in mind, in what world would the body need 150 grams of protein above daily maintenance for that It doesn't.
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I mean, Mentzer talked about this decades ago. The math is simple. If you gained 10kg of muscle a year, which is VERY good, that equates to about 27 grams of weight gain a day, and muscle is mostly water, not protein, so your body will turn only about 6-7 grams of protein into muscle tissue a day. Now with that in mind, in what world would the body need 150 grams of protein above daily maintenance for that It doesn't.
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jeremy_ethier
Hi, Im a bit confused. I checked the meta-anysis and it seems to state the opposite
The evidence suggests that increasing daily protein ingestion may enhance gains in LBM in studies enrolling subjects in RE (SMD [standardized mean difference] = 0. 22, 95% CI [95% confidence interval] 0. 14: 0. 30, P < 0. 01, 62 studies, moderate level of evidence.
Similarly the supplementary figures 12 and 13 show a notable trend.
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Hi, Im a bit confused. I checked the meta-anysis and it seems to state the opposite
The evidence suggests that increasing daily protein ingestion may enhance gains in LBM in studies enrolling subjects in RE (SMD [standardized mean difference] = 0. 22, 95% CI [95% confidence interval] 0. 14: 0. 30, P < 0. 01, 62 studies, moderate level of evidence.
Similarly the supplementary figures 12 and 13 show a notable trend.
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brunonkowalski
I'm not surprised, because I've been training for over 20 years in total, and during that time, I've tried protein intakes ranging from 100g to 220g or even more. The only thing I noticed when eating more protein was increased body mass (I was fatter) and I felt worse. When eating less protein, I was leaner, but my muscle gains were probably even better, definitely at least as good, and I generally felt better.
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I'm not surprised, because I've been training for over 20 years in total, and during that time, I've tried protein intakes ranging from 100g to 220g or even more. The only thing I noticed when eating more protein was increased body mass (I was fatter) and I felt worse. When eating less protein, I was leaner, but my muscle gains were probably even better, definitely at least as good, and I generally felt better.
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