A Better Computer Fan - Sometimes: Cross-Flow Meshless AIO Case Benchmarks & Review
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Date: 2024-04-30
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Comments and reviews: 20
berated4541
As an HVAC technician I have learned a few things over the years about airflow and the contraptions that move them. Cross-flow fans are designed to operate with little to no static pressure (under .5 in. W.C.) and when you do use them in a high static pressure scenarios they A, significantly reduce the amount of air they are able to move due to the vortices created from the back pressure, and B, the motors burn up prematurely due to high amp draw, created by the static pressure. Also the maintenance to clean these is far more tedious, and balancing can become a nightmare. Axial fans are nice because they can be customized from low to high static by changing the shape, pitch, width, and thickness of the blades. Squirrel cage fans are for use in medium to high static pressure, and is the most efficient of the the 3 in regards to moving a given volume of air.
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As an HVAC technician I have learned a few things over the years about airflow and the contraptions that move them. Cross-flow fans are designed to operate with little to no static pressure (under .5 in. W.C.) and when you do use them in a high static pressure scenarios they A, significantly reduce the amount of air they are able to move due to the vortices created from the back pressure, and B, the motors burn up prematurely due to high amp draw, created by the static pressure. Also the maintenance to clean these is far more tedious, and balancing can become a nightmare. Axial fans are nice because they can be customized from low to high static by changing the shape, pitch, width, and thickness of the blades. Squirrel cage fans are for use in medium to high static pressure, and is the most efficient of the the 3 in regards to moving a given volume of air.
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jamesthenewb
I'd be interested to know the cleaning interval and wear or the point where the fan starts breaking down.
Historically the biggest reason I don't use that fan design is due to wear speed, fragility, price, and the need for more frequent cleaning. I found that the axial fans that are more common take a bit more abuse over time.
Some vendors use the same idea in salt water aquariums in place of flow pumps to create gyre wave patterns and to push flow up and over the top of corals. (Cross-Flow Gyre Wave Pump) They have the same fragility, wear, cleaning pattern, and price concerns. Though, greatly accelerated due to the environment.
Large mass spinning and hanging on a long thin, often ceramic, rod.
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I'd be interested to know the cleaning interval and wear or the point where the fan starts breaking down.
Historically the biggest reason I don't use that fan design is due to wear speed, fragility, price, and the need for more frequent cleaning. I found that the axial fans that are more common take a bit more abuse over time.
Some vendors use the same idea in salt water aquariums in place of flow pumps to create gyre wave patterns and to push flow up and over the top of corals. (Cross-Flow Gyre Wave Pump) They have the same fragility, wear, cleaning pattern, and price concerns. Though, greatly accelerated due to the environment.
Large mass spinning and hanging on a long thin, often ceramic, rod.
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GreyFox474
First they take the dingle bop and they smooth it out with a bunch of schleem. The schleem is then repurposed for later batches. They take the dingle bop and they push it through the grumbo, where the fleeb is rubbed against it. It's important that the fleeb is rubbed, becasue the fleeb has all the fleeb juice. Then, a schlami shows up, and he rubs it and spits on it. They cut the fleeb. There's several hizzards in the way. The blamfs rub against the chumbles, and the plubis, and grumbo are shaved away. That leaves you with a regular old plumbus.
Thats about as much as I understood in the animation. :D
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First they take the dingle bop and they smooth it out with a bunch of schleem. The schleem is then repurposed for later batches. They take the dingle bop and they push it through the grumbo, where the fleeb is rubbed against it. It's important that the fleeb is rubbed, becasue the fleeb has all the fleeb juice. Then, a schlami shows up, and he rubs it and spits on it. They cut the fleeb. There's several hizzards in the way. The blamfs rub against the chumbles, and the plubis, and grumbo are shaved away. That leaves you with a regular old plumbus.
Thats about as much as I understood in the animation. :D
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WildRapier
Great analysis! One thing, and this goes for most cases and builds but obviously more so in a small form factor, the PSU! Now follow me, 850 watt power supply at (platinum) 80% efficiency, this means 20%- INNEFFICENT! Which is heat! So at maximum draw this would be 170 watts of heat evicted (I like that one!) INTO the case!!! The 4070FE draws 200W max (stock). So instead of evicting the PSU heat it is thrown into the case (see 18:18). ALMOST (85%) the amount the GPU can output. Why not just evict that heat immediately! Food for thought!
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Great analysis! One thing, and this goes for most cases and builds but obviously more so in a small form factor, the PSU! Now follow me, 850 watt power supply at (platinum) 80% efficiency, this means 20%- INNEFFICENT! Which is heat! So at maximum draw this would be 170 watts of heat evicted (I like that one!) INTO the case!!! The 4070FE draws 200W max (stock). So instead of evicting the PSU heat it is thrown into the case (see 18:18). ALMOST (85%) the amount the GPU can output. Why not just evict that heat immediately! Food for thought!
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KellicTiger
I've always been confused why the hell small companies like this, or two or three people.... Do a better job of innovating than companies who have ridiculous amounts of resources. The only thing that I I can figure out is that the bean counters at these larger companies are risk-averse. So any ideas by their engineering team is thrown out as being too risky and costly. Because frankly something like this should be introduced by Lian Li, Corsair and the like. They've got the resources to do this
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I've always been confused why the hell small companies like this, or two or three people.... Do a better job of innovating than companies who have ridiculous amounts of resources. The only thing that I I can figure out is that the bean counters at these larger companies are risk-averse. So any ideas by their engineering team is thrown out as being too risky and costly. Because frankly something like this should be introduced by Lian Li, Corsair and the like. They've got the resources to do this
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user-eh1vp3ev3c
I'm kinda surprised we haven't seen case fans based on the design of the Sharrow propeller.
Unless there's some sort of patent/licensing issue, or perhaps pushing air doesn't benefit from the design in comparison to pushing water.
Nothing stopping Chinese companies from ripping off the design like they do with everything else, they certainly don't care about patents.
Ah nevermind, looks like Major Hardware did a spot on them.
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I'm kinda surprised we haven't seen case fans based on the design of the Sharrow propeller.
Unless there's some sort of patent/licensing issue, or perhaps pushing air doesn't benefit from the design in comparison to pushing water.
Nothing stopping Chinese companies from ripping off the design like they do with everything else, they certainly don't care about patents.
Ah nevermind, looks like Major Hardware did a spot on them.
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rangersmith4652
The popular Vornado line of window-mounted ventilation devices uses a transverse fan and is brilliantly effective. Lots of potential here, especially in larger cases where the big fan can stretch its legs without needing to so closely mesh with other case elements. Lots of current ATX cases could mount a transverse fan in front as the main intake with minimal modification. But where to put the RGBs
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The popular Vornado line of window-mounted ventilation devices uses a transverse fan and is brilliantly effective. Lots of potential here, especially in larger cases where the big fan can stretch its legs without needing to so closely mesh with other case elements. Lots of current ATX cases could mount a transverse fan in front as the main intake with minimal modification. But where to put the RGBs
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gamersnexus
I pulled one of these out of some random piece of commercial equipment that was going into the garbage and rigged it into my gaming PC some 15 years ago. It had a 3 speed switch and even on the lowest setting, which was effectively silent, it was a massive improvement to system thermals. It was a pretty high amp draw for its size though. Had it wired it to a dedicated wall wart.
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I pulled one of these out of some random piece of commercial equipment that was going into the garbage and rigged it into my gaming PC some 15 years ago. It had a 3 speed switch and even on the lowest setting, which was effectively silent, it was a massive improvement to system thermals. It was a pretty high amp draw for its size though. Had it wired it to a dedicated wall wart.
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deilusi
It really sounds like a good way to push fresh air into bigger builds as well.
As external module, added to the outside of the case, that just shoves buckets of air into the case, so other fans work with higher static pressure, this sounds like it can go somewhere.
not as only solution but as nice supplementary fan, in setups where all other (normal) fans are exhausts.
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It really sounds like a good way to push fresh air into bigger builds as well.
As external module, added to the outside of the case, that just shoves buckets of air into the case, so other fans work with higher static pressure, this sounds like it can go somewhere.
not as only solution but as nice supplementary fan, in setups where all other (normal) fans are exhausts.
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albusplaustrum06
If nothing else this case can jiggle the minds of other designers and we could see GPU design changes, more cases, and more variety over all.
Haven't built anything since putting my 2700X together and I know the Corsair A540 is not the best case but I do enjoy it for the most part. Custom painted my wife's A540 to appear more trooperish of the storm variant.
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If nothing else this case can jiggle the minds of other designers and we could see GPU design changes, more cases, and more variety over all.
Haven't built anything since putting my 2700X together and I know the Corsair A540 is not the best case but I do enjoy it for the most part. Custom painted my wife's A540 to appear more trooperish of the storm variant.
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boam2943
It seems to me that water cooling the GPU would be better for thermals but it would be a pain to mount. Maybe the manufacturer can account for that in a future version of the case. Basically just the same pump/reservoir combo with a tube going from CPU to GPU and another from GPU to radiator instead of just one tube from CPU to radiator on one of the sides.
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It seems to me that water cooling the GPU would be better for thermals but it would be a pain to mount. Maybe the manufacturer can account for that in a future version of the case. Basically just the same pump/reservoir combo with a tube going from CPU to GPU and another from GPU to radiator instead of just one tube from CPU to radiator on one of the sides.
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fremenondesand3896
The power button looks a lot like one I bought on ebay recently. LED doesn't work which is annoying (haven't tested it on a different motherboard) but it's a 14mm hole.
it's in my thermaltake shark case, which has 12mm holes, for external water cooling. Because that was the fashion at the time (2004)
Has a modern system in it (Ryzen AM4)
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The power button looks a lot like one I bought on ebay recently. LED doesn't work which is annoying (haven't tested it on a different motherboard) but it's a 14mm hole.
it's in my thermaltake shark case, which has 12mm holes, for external water cooling. Because that was the fashion at the time (2004)
Has a modern system in it (Ryzen AM4)
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guotyr2502
Never understood the appeal of small form factor ,way more expensive so people that lack the space don't have the money for it anyway and it's a big hassle for those that have the money. They are objectively only for looks at the price of convenience , features and sometimes performance too , you pay more to get less computing.
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Never understood the appeal of small form factor ,way more expensive so people that lack the space don't have the money for it anyway and it's a big hassle for those that have the money. They are objectively only for looks at the price of convenience , features and sometimes performance too , you pay more to get less computing.
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Lintary
Small form factor is not at all something I ever plan to use, but I certainly love all the clever engineering that goes into making something like this work.
Love the extras to you all bring in reviews on items like these, it saves those of us in know a LOT of time explaining it to people when we share the videos :)
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Small form factor is not at all something I ever plan to use, but I certainly love all the clever engineering that goes into making something like this work.
Love the extras to you all bring in reviews on items like these, it saves those of us in know a LOT of time explaining it to people when we share the videos :)
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MarcsSpark
I love schlieren imaging, but just a thought. Could you use a heating element like in water tank, spa or even an old cook top instead of the hand warmer. That way it generates heat without propulsion. Don't know if the heat needs to be more directed or something. Again, just a thought. Really appreciate the content.
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I love schlieren imaging, but just a thought. Could you use a heating element like in water tank, spa or even an old cook top instead of the hand warmer. That way it generates heat without propulsion. Don't know if the heat needs to be more directed or something. Again, just a thought. Really appreciate the content.
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Raisopod
I'm impressed that it works as well as it does. Even if it's not revolutionary in the sense of this guy made an ITX case that solves all ITX problems, it's definitely awesome that it works, and seems to work well. It's refreshing to see innovation like this in a market saturated in cheaply made garbage and knockoffs.
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I'm impressed that it works as well as it does. Even if it's not revolutionary in the sense of this guy made an ITX case that solves all ITX problems, it's definitely awesome that it works, and seems to work well. It's refreshing to see innovation like this in a market saturated in cheaply made garbage and knockoffs.
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Loki_Firegod
Not finished with the video yet but I gotta give a thumbs up for the Jay-shoutout at 14:45.
Very nice review so far, and a very cool design. I'm personally not that much into sff builds, but it's nice to see some people thinking (and building) outside the box (or, technically, inside the box but differently)
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Not finished with the video yet but I gotta give a thumbs up for the Jay-shoutout at 14:45.
Very nice review so far, and a very cool design. I'm personally not that much into sff builds, but it's nice to see some people thinking (and building) outside the box (or, technically, inside the box but differently)
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kasakka
Fantastic, in-depth video!
As for the actual case...I don't understand insisting on the tempered glass. Just put a vented side panel for better long-term durability and airflow. At 16 liters, I don't really see much reason to buy this over the dirt cheap 18 liter NR200P that I'm currently using with a 13600K4090.
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Fantastic, in-depth video!
As for the actual case...I don't understand insisting on the tempered glass. Just put a vented side panel for better long-term durability and airflow. At 16 liters, I don't really see much reason to buy this over the dirt cheap 18 liter NR200P that I'm currently using with a 13600K4090.
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salmiakki5638
My fluid dynamics professor would die hearing laminar used throughout this video.
The flow produced by it is definitely not laminar. Check the Reynolds Number
Please don't throw words at random. If you do it doesn't matter how many educational animation you include, the piece will not enrich anyone.
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My fluid dynamics professor would die hearing laminar used throughout this video.
The flow produced by it is definitely not laminar. Check the Reynolds Number
Please don't throw words at random. If you do it doesn't matter how many educational animation you include, the piece will not enrich anyone.
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AriManPad8gi
that thing looks to be very well designed. let's see watch video. and yah, very precisely, which can be a disadvantage, but the designer seems to have devoted a lot of thought to it. also that thing at 12:53 ish hilarious bcz it sounded like that, but made sense. the dysphonia kicked in hard there LOL
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that thing looks to be very well designed. let's see watch video. and yah, very precisely, which can be a disadvantage, but the designer seems to have devoted a lot of thought to it. also that thing at 12:53 ish hilarious bcz it sounded like that, but made sense. the dysphonia kicked in hard there LOL
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