#1 Neuroscientist Explains One Concept in 5 Levels of Difficulty
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Date: 2022-07-06
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Comments and reviews: 10
Robert
To answer Dr. Kasthuri's philosophical question of whether simulating a brain's neural map using a computer would effectively allow that computer to think as that organic brain does, I would say that computer simulation would not produce quite the same effect of organic thinking or consciousness. I want to elaborate by saying I believe the computer simulated version would have the capacity to accurately simulate the organic brain's thinking but only as it was thinking during the time of the neural mapping and not afterwards. The simulation would only have a pattern or recipe to use in determining or predicting how to think like the organic brain, making predictions that align with one of infinitely many possibilities. The major disqualification, in my opinion, of the simulated brain versus the organic one is the fact that organic ones (people) have the ability to completely change their thought patterns.
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To answer Dr. Kasthuri's philosophical question of whether simulating a brain's neural map using a computer would effectively allow that computer to think as that organic brain does, I would say that computer simulation would not produce quite the same effect of organic thinking or consciousness. I want to elaborate by saying I believe the computer simulated version would have the capacity to accurately simulate the organic brain's thinking but only as it was thinking during the time of the neural mapping and not afterwards. The simulation would only have a pattern or recipe to use in determining or predicting how to think like the organic brain, making predictions that align with one of infinitely many possibilities. The major disqualification, in my opinion, of the simulated brain versus the organic one is the fact that organic ones (people) have the ability to completely change their thought patterns.
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Valentin
The re-creation and print of your mind wouldn-t be you: if you print the mona lisa today it agreeably is not the mona lisa, the original was made in the renaissance and the recreation would be made today. and in a more exact analogy: you were born however many years ago, up until this point in time you have existed and have memories as proof of your existence. your brain gets copied and functions as a brain, i assume it would have those memories as well, but these memories were made before the copy was ever made, how can the copy be you if it didn-t even exist at the time of the creation of your memories. This debate is easily found in the existentialism of the blade runner movies which are pretty cool lmfao.
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The re-creation and print of your mind wouldn-t be you: if you print the mona lisa today it agreeably is not the mona lisa, the original was made in the renaissance and the recreation would be made today. and in a more exact analogy: you were born however many years ago, up until this point in time you have existed and have memories as proof of your existence. your brain gets copied and functions as a brain, i assume it would have those memories as well, but these memories were made before the copy was ever made, how can the copy be you if it didn-t even exist at the time of the creation of your memories. This debate is easily found in the existentialism of the blade runner movies which are pretty cool lmfao.
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Keaden
What I would like to know is even if we could make a computer representation of a human brain; it thinks, maybe feels, does it adapt and grow? Will it -develop-?
Ex: I'm still growing, if we make a copy of my brain rn, will it have -matured- by the time we both reach 21? Will it want? Will it need? Does it then have rights? Will it continue to grow and develop talents besides what I/we have right now? Does it remember? Can I speak to myself? Does it remember better than an organic brain? Will it stop growing the same time I do if it does grow?
Edit: I'm glad they talked about memory briefly at the end! And i love how comfortable he seemed with the last guy too lol. Two of the same type of nerd.
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What I would like to know is even if we could make a computer representation of a human brain; it thinks, maybe feels, does it adapt and grow? Will it -develop-?
Ex: I'm still growing, if we make a copy of my brain rn, will it have -matured- by the time we both reach 21? Will it want? Will it need? Does it then have rights? Will it continue to grow and develop talents besides what I/we have right now? Does it remember? Can I speak to myself? Does it remember better than an organic brain? Will it stop growing the same time I do if it does grow?
Edit: I'm glad they talked about memory briefly at the end! And i love how comfortable he seemed with the last guy too lol. Two of the same type of nerd.
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Craig
In the interest of debate: 1. Neurons also communicate chemically, i. e. hormones. Wouldn't this communication also need to be modeled? Plus electrochemical synaptic activity within and between neurons exists and should be modeled. 2. Convince me that electrical and chemical communication aren't modulated in frequency and/or amplitude, thus becoming, or themselves modeling, analog communication. When I kick something, it goes faster and farther depending on the speed of my foot and the adherence of follow-through. I. e. d-impulse, d-energy, d-momentium, d-force, all with respect to d-time. 3. Is the modeling robust enough to accept interactions in realms yet to be discovered?
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In the interest of debate: 1. Neurons also communicate chemically, i. e. hormones. Wouldn't this communication also need to be modeled? Plus electrochemical synaptic activity within and between neurons exists and should be modeled. 2. Convince me that electrical and chemical communication aren't modulated in frequency and/or amplitude, thus becoming, or themselves modeling, analog communication. When I kick something, it goes faster and farther depending on the speed of my foot and the adherence of follow-through. I. e. d-impulse, d-energy, d-momentium, d-force, all with respect to d-time. 3. Is the modeling robust enough to accept interactions in realms yet to be discovered?
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David
Dr. Kasthuri is mixing in his own philosophic ideas with the neuroscience, saying that brain processes -are- feelings, and that a computer map of the kids' brains would contain their feelings. This is materialist identity theory, along with computationalist/cognitivist theory and these are hotly debated ideas. Some philosophers, cognitive scientists, and neuroscientists would argue THE KIDS ARE RIGHT and DR. KASTHURI IS WRONG: Computers are fundamentally unlike brains, brain processes are not feelings, and experience cannot be uploaded to a computer. For more, see Chapter 9 of Rediscovery of the Mind by John Searle, and The Relativistic Brain by Nicolelis & Cicurel.
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Dr. Kasthuri is mixing in his own philosophic ideas with the neuroscience, saying that brain processes -are- feelings, and that a computer map of the kids' brains would contain their feelings. This is materialist identity theory, along with computationalist/cognitivist theory and these are hotly debated ideas. Some philosophers, cognitive scientists, and neuroscientists would argue THE KIDS ARE RIGHT and DR. KASTHURI IS WRONG: Computers are fundamentally unlike brains, brain processes are not feelings, and experience cannot be uploaded to a computer. For more, see Chapter 9 of Rediscovery of the Mind by John Searle, and The Relativistic Brain by Nicolelis & Cicurel.
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Jonathan
I think I understood. And I think that yeswe could simulate the connectome in a computer. and I hope we can give the simulation the ability to communicate so that we could know the existential crisis this copy of the person is going through. I would totally do that and then have a discussion with my alter ego that is obviously going to try to make me feel guilty for doing that. after regretting having done this choice. and then I'll end it's misery by shutting it off and live the rest of my life with the guilt of having created a digital AI copy of myself and having killed it.
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I think I understood. And I think that yeswe could simulate the connectome in a computer. and I hope we can give the simulation the ability to communicate so that we could know the existential crisis this copy of the person is going through. I would totally do that and then have a discussion with my alter ego that is obviously going to try to make me feel guilty for doing that. after regretting having done this choice. and then I'll end it's misery by shutting it off and live the rest of my life with the guilt of having created a digital AI copy of myself and having killed it.
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Nora
Here's the part I don't understand. It seems like your answer is that putting the neural data into a computer would result in the computer feeling as humans do. But then you say that a simulation of a hurricane shouldn't result in wetness, and a simulation of a brain shouldn't result in consciousness. But if the consciousness isn't there, in what way is it feeling as humans do? It seems like consciousness isn't a side property. It's the entire point. But I'd really like to know what you think about this. ..
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Here's the part I don't understand. It seems like your answer is that putting the neural data into a computer would result in the computer feeling as humans do. But then you say that a simulation of a hurricane shouldn't result in wetness, and a simulation of a brain shouldn't result in consciousness. But if the consciousness isn't there, in what way is it feeling as humans do? It seems like consciousness isn't a side property. It's the entire point. But I'd really like to know what you think about this. ..
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Daniel
4: 00 I'm no neuroscientist, but the electrical signal travels down the axon and triggers the release of neurotransmitters which also influence the overall firing of other neurons. That would be more of a gradient than a binary system. for instance with Purkinje cells (mainly used for motor control) mainly function through releasing GABA I believe? And GABA's function is to silence other neurons through hyperpolarization
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4: 00 I'm no neuroscientist, but the electrical signal travels down the axon and triggers the release of neurotransmitters which also influence the overall firing of other neurons. That would be more of a gradient than a binary system. for instance with Purkinje cells (mainly used for motor control) mainly function through releasing GABA I believe? And GABA's function is to silence other neurons through hyperpolarization
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Christen
I think there are advantages to the knowledge brain mapping at this level would give us. In more knowledge overall but also to help people with certain difficulties.
But the history of human behavior does demonstrate that such knowledge could be misused by using it to exclude people. Or against certain people.
So then key becomes how to make use of the benefits while at the same time protect humanity.
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I think there are advantages to the knowledge brain mapping at this level would give us. In more knowledge overall but also to help people with certain difficulties.
But the history of human behavior does demonstrate that such knowledge could be misused by using it to exclude people. Or against certain people.
So then key becomes how to make use of the benefits while at the same time protect humanity.
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Jonathan
Brain emulation is a beautiful concept with real world applications. I suspect that in order to reach the desired outcome, that is memory replay or brain thought emulation, we will have to find the right physics equations and see what happens. -I feel therefore I am- however may require chemical and quantum interactions with computer science in order to achieve human emulation.
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Brain emulation is a beautiful concept with real world applications. I suspect that in order to reach the desired outcome, that is memory replay or brain thought emulation, we will have to find the right physics equations and see what happens. -I feel therefore I am- however may require chemical and quantum interactions with computer science in order to achieve human emulation.
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