What's the Difference Between Cults and Religion: Crash Course Religions #3
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Date: 2024-09-27
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Comments and reviews: 20
alexanderx33
Distinguishing a cult from a religion as though religion could be without sin is a mistake I agree. However, cult is a useful moniker for predicting behavior. Particularly when you narrow down the definition to a group which exerts a high level of control over its members. I would personally add that the epistomology of the group is also an important distinction. Specifically whether its claims to authority are couched in falsifyable or unfalsifyable claims. This isn't to exclude falsifyable groups that have a high level of control. Rather a high level of control is a necessary adaptation to compensate for the unfalsifyability of claims to authority.
Groups of this kind are as memetic structures pruned by communication based natural selection to adopt common features. It's convergent memetic evolution.
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Distinguishing a cult from a religion as though religion could be without sin is a mistake I agree. However, cult is a useful moniker for predicting behavior. Particularly when you narrow down the definition to a group which exerts a high level of control over its members. I would personally add that the epistomology of the group is also an important distinction. Specifically whether its claims to authority are couched in falsifyable or unfalsifyable claims. This isn't to exclude falsifyable groups that have a high level of control. Rather a high level of control is a necessary adaptation to compensate for the unfalsifyability of claims to authority.
Groups of this kind are as memetic structures pruned by communication based natural selection to adopt common features. It's convergent memetic evolution.
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blessedwhitney
A doctor I saw called domestic violence a cult of one. Charismatic leader, gaslighting that you end up participating in, separating from family, financial control. I now look at it in reverse. I look at the power and control wheel of domestic violence. How many of those aspects are represented in that group, and are represented as Orthodox (rather than the more exceptional rotten apples in every group. I worry that getting rid of the label altogether makes people less wary. Keeping it black and white, though, is still less helpful at protecting people than seeing it as a spectrum -- just like jealousy can be a red flag of an abuser but not all jealous lovers are abusive. They're red flags and you need to see a few to know something IS a Problem versus just. has a problem.
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A doctor I saw called domestic violence a cult of one. Charismatic leader, gaslighting that you end up participating in, separating from family, financial control. I now look at it in reverse. I look at the power and control wheel of domestic violence. How many of those aspects are represented in that group, and are represented as Orthodox (rather than the more exceptional rotten apples in every group. I worry that getting rid of the label altogether makes people less wary. Keeping it black and white, though, is still less helpful at protecting people than seeing it as a spectrum -- just like jealousy can be a red flag of an abuser but not all jealous lovers are abusive. They're red flags and you need to see a few to know something IS a Problem versus just. has a problem.
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lotsofstuff9645
I have considered this question for some time, but lately my thoughts are that I don’t believe there is a difference. Well, not exactly no difference, just more that we are more used to the beliefs and practices of the larger religions than we are the small cults. They are equally as strange and potentially as risky with the worlds religions as it is with the smaller more typical cults we are used to. If I had never heard of Catholicism and I heard my brother was regularly meeting up with a group that regally got together to repetitively chant and sing about its leader, prepare for their next life, be made to feel broken, and ritualistically and/or symbolically eat the body of their leader and drink his blood I mean I would be quite concerned.
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I have considered this question for some time, but lately my thoughts are that I don’t believe there is a difference. Well, not exactly no difference, just more that we are more used to the beliefs and practices of the larger religions than we are the small cults. They are equally as strange and potentially as risky with the worlds religions as it is with the smaller more typical cults we are used to. If I had never heard of Catholicism and I heard my brother was regularly meeting up with a group that regally got together to repetitively chant and sing about its leader, prepare for their next life, be made to feel broken, and ritualistically and/or symbolically eat the body of their leader and drink his blood I mean I would be quite concerned.
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Beryllahawk
As someone who's met a lot of religions and gone away from them all - I can't quite articulate how much I appreciated that single line about people who are spiritual but not religious. That kind of very individual, introspective spiritual practice means a lot to me, and I've lost count of the times that folks have given me side-eye and asked if I'm in a cult. It's to the point that I simply choose to smile, nod, and say nothing if religion comes into the conversation. I live in the Deep South: it's FAR SAFER to be silent and let them assume you're just like them.
Which makes me very sad, because isn't this supposed to be the land of tolerance
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As someone who's met a lot of religions and gone away from them all - I can't quite articulate how much I appreciated that single line about people who are spiritual but not religious. That kind of very individual, introspective spiritual practice means a lot to me, and I've lost count of the times that folks have given me side-eye and asked if I'm in a cult. It's to the point that I simply choose to smile, nod, and say nothing if religion comes into the conversation. I live in the Deep South: it's FAR SAFER to be silent and let them assume you're just like them.
Which makes me very sad, because isn't this supposed to be the land of tolerance
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MODIAK
Thank you for this well thought out and eloquently articulated video. I am a part of a new religious group that gets blanket labeled as a cult. It is frustrating because people accuse us of being secretive when we do so because we are trying to avoid persecution. I agree the word cult is misused and generally means I don't like them, and I don't want other people to like them. Education and open discussion will accomplish much more than unproductive name calling. Thank you again for this well-done video.
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Thank you for this well thought out and eloquently articulated video. I am a part of a new religious group that gets blanket labeled as a cult. It is frustrating because people accuse us of being secretive when we do so because we are trying to avoid persecution. I agree the word cult is misused and generally means I don't like them, and I don't want other people to like them. Education and open discussion will accomplish much more than unproductive name calling. Thank you again for this well-done video.
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chillsahoy2640
Thank you for making this nuanced video. As an atheist who grew up in a secular household, I always found that there's a blurred line between religion and cult. Some people end up in small religious communities that provided them with comfort and a healthy lifestyle, while others end up being part of a major world religion but have a toxic relationship with some other members of that religion. It's reassuring to find out that the distinction is fuzzy and maybe not particularly helpful.
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Thank you for making this nuanced video. As an atheist who grew up in a secular household, I always found that there's a blurred line between religion and cult. Some people end up in small religious communities that provided them with comfort and a healthy lifestyle, while others end up being part of a major world religion but have a toxic relationship with some other members of that religion. It's reassuring to find out that the distinction is fuzzy and maybe not particularly helpful.
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NeosAvias
Maybe it's because I'm an agnostic atheist but to me I'm the type to basically view cult and religion as functionally synonymous (with only size and popularity being the differing factors, BUT that doesn't necessarily speak to whether the practitioners of either are necessarily bad. Rather, as what is implied in the video, all religious movements have the capacity to develop the negative attributes that are popularly associated with cults and not religions by the religious.
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Maybe it's because I'm an agnostic atheist but to me I'm the type to basically view cult and religion as functionally synonymous (with only size and popularity being the differing factors, BUT that doesn't necessarily speak to whether the practitioners of either are necessarily bad. Rather, as what is implied in the video, all religious movements have the capacity to develop the negative attributes that are popularly associated with cults and not religions by the religious.
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hoppybirdy6967
Thanks for treating discussion of my religion (LDS) with care and understanding. We're not perfect, and things could definitely be worse (and are for many others, but having grown up being mocked and talked down to, to the point where I often get nervous when mentioning my faith to people I want to befriend or even people I just want to see me as an equal. It's nice to be portrayed in such a human way, rather than as a topic of scandal, ridicule, or dread.
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Thanks for treating discussion of my religion (LDS) with care and understanding. We're not perfect, and things could definitely be worse (and are for many others, but having grown up being mocked and talked down to, to the point where I often get nervous when mentioning my faith to people I want to befriend or even people I just want to see me as an equal. It's nice to be portrayed in such a human way, rather than as a topic of scandal, ridicule, or dread.
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tananario23
It’s not complicated: if ALL services, ALL religious education, and ALL rituals are welcoming to ALL participants and open to the entire public, regardless of who they are - that’s a religion. Once you get into secret hand signals, limited access to secret knowledge, specific clothing, etc. it’s a cult. Religions spawn cults because men, and the occasional woman, figured out how to make obscene amounts of money off of fear.
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It’s not complicated: if ALL services, ALL religious education, and ALL rituals are welcoming to ALL participants and open to the entire public, regardless of who they are - that’s a religion. Once you get into secret hand signals, limited access to secret knowledge, specific clothing, etc. it’s a cult. Religions spawn cults because men, and the occasional woman, figured out how to make obscene amounts of money off of fear.
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cheriseking4945
Thank you so much for this video. I've been thinking about what makes something a cult for several years, since someone told me I'm a member of a cult. I really love the idea that when someone labels something as a cult, it tells us more about that person than the organization they are speaking about. That's extremely helpful for me and has helped me acknowledge the journey of the cult caller. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
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Thank you so much for this video. I've been thinking about what makes something a cult for several years, since someone told me I'm a member of a cult. I really love the idea that when someone labels something as a cult, it tells us more about that person than the organization they are speaking about. That's extremely helpful for me and has helped me acknowledge the journey of the cult caller. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
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crash_course
My line for what counts as a cult versus what's a religion is based on how members are instructed in regards to non-members. If your religion instructs you to stop interacting with people who are outside your religion, particularly if that applies to friends and family, then you are in a cult. What makes a cult, for me, is that it tries to isolate it's members such that it becomes the only source of belonging. Seeking control.
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My line for what counts as a cult versus what's a religion is based on how members are instructed in regards to non-members. If your religion instructs you to stop interacting with people who are outside your religion, particularly if that applies to friends and family, then you are in a cult. What makes a cult, for me, is that it tries to isolate it's members such that it becomes the only source of belonging. Seeking control.
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nidegama
I'd like to stress a point:
A cult is characterized by intense control over its members through psychological and social manipulation. A common practice is isolating them from outside influences. This is why leaving a cult is often traumatic, as former members struggle to rebuild their sense of identity and reconnect with the world they were cut off from.
Stil, I agree about the similarities between religions and cults
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I'd like to stress a point:
A cult is characterized by intense control over its members through psychological and social manipulation. A common practice is isolating them from outside influences. This is why leaving a cult is often traumatic, as former members struggle to rebuild their sense of identity and reconnect with the world they were cut off from.
Stil, I agree about the similarities between religions and cults
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ianhamza8240
If you encourage a congregation to believe in divine intervention and a second coming you are automatic danger to earth and all humans. that's the line just like stopping sacrifice we must reform all religion away from prophecy. Or they will always be against those that don't and secular liberties and science authority. We used this Stockholm syndrome to fill our millitary this also must stop before its too late.
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If you encourage a congregation to believe in divine intervention and a second coming you are automatic danger to earth and all humans. that's the line just like stopping sacrifice we must reform all religion away from prophecy. Or they will always be against those that don't and secular liberties and science authority. We used this Stockholm syndrome to fill our millitary this also must stop before its too late.
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forgivenstreet
I'm sorry I need to sidestep the conversation for second. 250 HOMES! - ARE YOU SERIOUS!
I haven't quite found the words to accurately describe how I'm feeling after hearing this information.
The amount of things I have learned about my country's history in school growing up, the same shit over and over again, but never this. In the area of history, I feel so cheated in my public education.
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I'm sorry I need to sidestep the conversation for second. 250 HOMES! - ARE YOU SERIOUS!
I haven't quite found the words to accurately describe how I'm feeling after hearing this information.
The amount of things I have learned about my country's history in school growing up, the same shit over and over again, but never this. In the area of history, I feel so cheated in my public education.
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papageno88
I've seen people using the phrase high control group over cult and (a) that's probably a good idea and (b) that's how I've used the word cult. Also, I generally like to point out that cults (i. e. high control groups) don't have to be religious. The Revolutionary Communist Party can be seen as a cult around Bob Avakian. Hell, Cross-fit can be pretty cult-like and they're a bloody exercise group.
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I've seen people using the phrase high control group over cult and (a) that's probably a good idea and (b) that's how I've used the word cult. Also, I generally like to point out that cults (i. e. high control groups) don't have to be religious. The Revolutionary Communist Party can be seen as a cult around Bob Avakian. Hell, Cross-fit can be pretty cult-like and they're a bloody exercise group.
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nebulan
To me, it's culty if they ostracize you for leaving. My understanding is that experiences vary with mormonism. My experience and several of my friends, we were allowed to leave amiably. We weren't ostracized. I wasn't excommunicated for ceasing tithes.
But it's possible that it is more common out here in the mission field (outside the jello belt. What are other people's experiences
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To me, it's culty if they ostracize you for leaving. My understanding is that experiences vary with mormonism. My experience and several of my friends, we were allowed to leave amiably. We weren't ostracized. I wasn't excommunicated for ceasing tithes.
But it's possible that it is more common out here in the mission field (outside the jello belt. What are other people's experiences
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Damons-Old-Soul
5: 20 From my Morality class in a Roman Catholic highschool, when we did a dive into cults, we came to the conclusion that the primary difference between a cult and a religion, was the number of believers, mixed with how long the group (cult/religion) has been around. In the decade plus, since then, I have yet to find a religion that doesn't meet this qualification.
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5: 20 From my Morality class in a Roman Catholic highschool, when we did a dive into cults, we came to the conclusion that the primary difference between a cult and a religion, was the number of believers, mixed with how long the group (cult/religion) has been around. In the decade plus, since then, I have yet to find a religion that doesn't meet this qualification.
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PyroGothNerd
Another example of labelling something a cult causing more violence goes back to The Latter Day Saint movement.
The Governor of Missouri at the time issued an extermination order. Yep, dude outright ordered genocide in the USA. Not to mention the Hawn's Hill Massacre, and the wolf hunts in Illinois that were actually just some psychos murdering LDS members.
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Another example of labelling something a cult causing more violence goes back to The Latter Day Saint movement.
The Governor of Missouri at the time issued an extermination order. Yep, dude outright ordered genocide in the USA. Not to mention the Hawn's Hill Massacre, and the wolf hunts in Illinois that were actually just some psychos murdering LDS members.
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Lawfair
My initial thought upon seeing this title was, how do you differentiate something you couldn't define from anything else I should have known the answer given I've studied mathematics. the two undefined words are convergent, the difference is a matter of preference. a cult is merely something the speaker doesn't like. So in my case all religions are cults.
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My initial thought upon seeing this title was, how do you differentiate something you couldn't define from anything else I should have known the answer given I've studied mathematics. the two undefined words are convergent, the difference is a matter of preference. a cult is merely something the speaker doesn't like. So in my case all religions are cults.
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Padsy95
So to me, cults are not mutually exclusive to religion. I think there are cults WITHIN religions. I think the difference is when the governing body will not let you leave. Like Peoples Temple or Scientology. They actively stop you from leaving where as the less extreme parts of religions will not actively stop you (shame, guilt, and excommunication aside.
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So to me, cults are not mutually exclusive to religion. I think there are cults WITHIN religions. I think the difference is when the governing body will not let you leave. Like Peoples Temple or Scientology. They actively stop you from leaving where as the less extreme parts of religions will not actively stop you (shame, guilt, and excommunication aside.
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