Why Desktop Environment Users Don't Understand Tiling Window Managers DistroTube
video description
Date: 2022-03-30
Related videos
Comments and reviews: 10
Tor
I love tiling window managers, I used i3 as my main wm for over 2 years. I love the fact that I can configure it so that it can be completely navigated from the keyboard without any mouse input. Combine that with a vimed webbrowser and that I do most of my software development in the terminal I could spend a whole day working without even touching my mouse. Despite all this I now for the last few weeks have completely turned my back on tiling window managers and here is why. A lot of third party software either don't work at all (e.g. some games that for some reason plays around with their window geometry before launching crashes in all tiling window managers I have tried), has an unusable interface (e.g. Andriod studio and some other JVM based software treat popup messages and role down menus as separate windowses which then just become a chaotic mess in a tiling window manager), or requires a workflow that goes against the tiling principles (e.g. zoom, which many are forced to use due to the current pandemic, constantly changes window constellations depending on what mode it is in). Even though, some of these problems can be solved by adding floating to these particular programs not all problems can be solved this way since the floating modes of all tiling window managers are subpar. While a non tiling system slows me down a bit since I have to move my right hand from the keyboard to the mouse for many tasks, I think that that is a small price to pay if it means that programs I use regularly works as intended and with minimal problems. After some testing I have come to the conclusion that Gnome with the shelltile extension is the best option for me (that way I can get at least some of the tiling features I like).
reply
I love tiling window managers, I used i3 as my main wm for over 2 years. I love the fact that I can configure it so that it can be completely navigated from the keyboard without any mouse input. Combine that with a vimed webbrowser and that I do most of my software development in the terminal I could spend a whole day working without even touching my mouse. Despite all this I now for the last few weeks have completely turned my back on tiling window managers and here is why. A lot of third party software either don't work at all (e.g. some games that for some reason plays around with their window geometry before launching crashes in all tiling window managers I have tried), has an unusable interface (e.g. Andriod studio and some other JVM based software treat popup messages and role down menus as separate windowses which then just become a chaotic mess in a tiling window manager), or requires a workflow that goes against the tiling principles (e.g. zoom, which many are forced to use due to the current pandemic, constantly changes window constellations depending on what mode it is in). Even though, some of these problems can be solved by adding floating to these particular programs not all problems can be solved this way since the floating modes of all tiling window managers are subpar. While a non tiling system slows me down a bit since I have to move my right hand from the keyboard to the mouse for many tasks, I think that that is a small price to pay if it means that programs I use regularly works as intended and with minimal problems. After some testing I have come to the conclusion that Gnome with the shelltile extension is the best option for me (that way I can get at least some of the tiling features I like).
reply
Jouni
I have been practically same desktop environment for well over 10 years. And I don't use tiling window manager. When ubuntu went for it's terrible new paradigm. I installed the packages that gave me the similar to old one back and configured it the old way and I've been using it since. As for gnome, it is really customizable, atleast the gnome(classic) but so many people don't know how to customize them, I was such Linux user for years. Gnome isn't a window manager it is a desktop environment and you can run it with any compliant window manager. I didn't bother do any scripting because I didn't need it for the customizations I wanted. There are many things in gnome environment that are individual REPLACEABLE and customizable programs, including scripting. The things in the gnome bar are gnome programs that can be written with any language that have bindings for gnome. Nautilus has python scripting. The bar itself is a gnome program that I think can be replaced but I haven't seen any reason why since everything I want can be customized.
As for scripting. I just looked that gnome has 1300 extensions available and I just looked about availability of the scripting because of this video. But I probably won't dabble into it since I have too much other things to going on and learning details on how to use LGPL licensed gui library isn't going to advance my actual goals right now.
reply
I have been practically same desktop environment for well over 10 years. And I don't use tiling window manager. When ubuntu went for it's terrible new paradigm. I installed the packages that gave me the similar to old one back and configured it the old way and I've been using it since. As for gnome, it is really customizable, atleast the gnome(classic) but so many people don't know how to customize them, I was such Linux user for years. Gnome isn't a window manager it is a desktop environment and you can run it with any compliant window manager. I didn't bother do any scripting because I didn't need it for the customizations I wanted. There are many things in gnome environment that are individual REPLACEABLE and customizable programs, including scripting. The things in the gnome bar are gnome programs that can be written with any language that have bindings for gnome. Nautilus has python scripting. The bar itself is a gnome program that I think can be replaced but I haven't seen any reason why since everything I want can be customized.
As for scripting. I just looked that gnome has 1300 extensions available and I just looked about availability of the scripting because of this video. But I probably won't dabble into it since I have too much other things to going on and learning details on how to use LGPL licensed gui library isn't going to advance my actual goals right now.
reply
Julian
I really disagree with this video. First of all I don't like the term -tiling window manager- for what you are referring to. The features you are talking about are not unique to window managers that are primarily used with a tiling layout, there are (albeit fewer) similarly customizable window managers that are primarily used with a floating layout. As for being able to create the same appearance/functionality, while this is true to some extent, many setups are easier to accomplish in certain window managers, and some are impossible to accomplish in certain window managers. Halfwit's window manager is a good example of a work flow that is basically impossible to recreate in most window managers. I think we can view these programmable window managers, as a window management framework that you use to build your own window manager, and the reason why there are so many is the same reason there are so many web frameworks, or game engines.
reply
I really disagree with this video. First of all I don't like the term -tiling window manager- for what you are referring to. The features you are talking about are not unique to window managers that are primarily used with a tiling layout, there are (albeit fewer) similarly customizable window managers that are primarily used with a floating layout. As for being able to create the same appearance/functionality, while this is true to some extent, many setups are easier to accomplish in certain window managers, and some are impossible to accomplish in certain window managers. Halfwit's window manager is a good example of a work flow that is basically impossible to recreate in most window managers. I think we can view these programmable window managers, as a window management framework that you use to build your own window manager, and the reason why there are so many is the same reason there are so many web frameworks, or game engines.
reply
MarvinMep
(sorry I haven't watched the video yet) As a -desktop environment user-, what I miss in these tutorials and videos about tiling windows managers is seeing normal apps, like LibreOffice, Firefox, Gimp, etc., running on a well-configured (or even on a misconfigured) tiled window. There's always only basic terminal windows or non-graphical apps.
We can't see how -normal- app looks and works on an tiling windows manager. I really think tiling windows are made for an only one kind of computer use: basic text or terminal work. Not coincidentally, the only tiling windows manager I tried was PopOS Shell, which was terrible because it's an auto-tiling system which seem to work fine only with (again) basic text or terminal work. Gnome's tiling feature works better for me. But I really want to believe that bspwm would be great for me.
reply
(sorry I haven't watched the video yet) As a -desktop environment user-, what I miss in these tutorials and videos about tiling windows managers is seeing normal apps, like LibreOffice, Firefox, Gimp, etc., running on a well-configured (or even on a misconfigured) tiled window. There's always only basic terminal windows or non-graphical apps.
We can't see how -normal- app looks and works on an tiling windows manager. I really think tiling windows are made for an only one kind of computer use: basic text or terminal work. Not coincidentally, the only tiling windows manager I tried was PopOS Shell, which was terrible because it's an auto-tiling system which seem to work fine only with (again) basic text or terminal work. Gnome's tiling feature works better for me. But I really want to believe that bspwm would be great for me.
reply
Simon
I tried QTile a couple of months ago installed to a 20.04 version of Lubuntu and really liked it, had got a rough config file sorted in a VM had strange behaviour when though when going back to Lubuntu desktop enviroment. I went to use it on a machine and now under Debian / Ubuntu it says it has been removed from the Repos. I have tried installing it through PIP but cannot get it to run. So i have installed Awesome in a VM and have got a rough config that works for me. Thanks DT, for the videos on hacking Awesome, if you could show how to install QTile on Debian / Ubuntu if you find the same issue that would be a video i would like to watch.
reply
I tried QTile a couple of months ago installed to a 20.04 version of Lubuntu and really liked it, had got a rough config file sorted in a VM had strange behaviour when though when going back to Lubuntu desktop enviroment. I went to use it on a machine and now under Debian / Ubuntu it says it has been removed from the Repos. I have tried installing it through PIP but cannot get it to run. So i have installed Awesome in a VM and have got a rough config that works for me. Thanks DT, for the videos on hacking Awesome, if you could show how to install QTile on Debian / Ubuntu if you find the same issue that would be a video i would like to watch.
reply
Tanmay
Honestly, TWM fanboys are just flexing. I tried the fad. If you have any actual work to do on your device then you won't waste your time constantly customising every little thing. At one point you'll realise that a standard stable DE has almost everything you need. Not being able to customize actually saves you time in some cases. Understand your DE and master it before getting into TWMs. Then TWMs will just feel like a fancy flex
reply
Honestly, TWM fanboys are just flexing. I tried the fad. If you have any actual work to do on your device then you won't waste your time constantly customising every little thing. At one point you'll realise that a standard stable DE has almost everything you need. Not being able to customize actually saves you time in some cases. Understand your DE and master it before getting into TWMs. Then TWMs will just feel like a fancy flex
reply
dziadekw
If you use full desktop they basically look the same from xfce up to kde. So if somone say that tiling wm looks the same is just hmm not wise.
I do not use any twm i feel I don't need to, but i recognize that TWM'S got tremendous abilities of customization. But that's not my thing.
Fluxbox or any other -box is the farthest i go and it is best for me in some cases. Best wishes for DT from a shore of Baltic sea :)
reply
If you use full desktop they basically look the same from xfce up to kde. So if somone say that tiling wm looks the same is just hmm not wise.
I do not use any twm i feel I don't need to, but i recognize that TWM'S got tremendous abilities of customization. But that's not my thing.
Fluxbox or any other -box is the farthest i go and it is best for me in some cases. Best wishes for DT from a shore of Baltic sea :)
reply
kdato
Dunno, DT. I am a stacking Window Manager user, and I understand tiling ones. My personal issue with tiling ones is that I cannot stand them. Twenty years ago I found the stacking WM that I keep coming back to, which is customizable like anything, even the themes are changable. I am also sticking witht the Distro that I started out with 20 years ago. IMO, you are generalizing too much, DT.
reply
Dunno, DT. I am a stacking Window Manager user, and I understand tiling ones. My personal issue with tiling ones is that I cannot stand them. Twenty years ago I found the stacking WM that I keep coming back to, which is customizable like anything, even the themes are changable. I am also sticking witht the Distro that I started out with 20 years ago. IMO, you are generalizing too much, DT.
reply
Audiojack
That is fantastic. I like sane default options and a relatively controlled environment because I find myself easily distracted by customization possibilities, and often end up just wasting time and breaking something or ruining usability. Currently I'm using ElementaryOS and it's quite good, there's only a couple of little things I change versus an out out of the box install.
reply
That is fantastic. I like sane default options and a relatively controlled environment because I find myself easily distracted by customization possibilities, and often end up just wasting time and breaking something or ruining usability. Currently I'm using ElementaryOS and it's quite good, there's only a couple of little things I change versus an out out of the box install.
reply
Adam
Tiling window managers is one of the best thing about Linux by far. Although since I switched to MacOS exclusively in 2014 I haven-t missed them since MacOS does basic tiling with multiple desktops and little apps like Swish make moving windows around just a mailer of flicking your finger on the mouse pad.
reply
Tiling window managers is one of the best thing about Linux by far. Although since I switched to MacOS exclusively in 2014 I haven-t missed them since MacOS does basic tiling with multiple desktops and little apps like Swish make moving windows around just a mailer of flicking your finger on the mouse pad.
reply
Add a review, comment
Other channel videos
