What if Teddy Roosevelt won in 1912?
video description
I'm curious to ask, do you believe Theodore Roosevelt's would have witnessed a less imperial executive from emerging? I'd be interested to know your support for that suggestion.
TRs presidency witnessed the first meaningful growth in executive power for decades, personally intervening to mediate a labor dispute when the anthracite coal miners threatened to strike in 1902, and vigorously prosecuting trusts, most notably with the dismantling of the Northern Securities Corporation in 1902. But despite these actions, Roosevelt generally respected the separation of powers, understood the general parameters and purview of Congress over policymaking, and worked decently well with his party in Congress to enact meaningful legislation.
But Roosevelts New Nationalism platform of 1912 represented a dramatic shift from his actions as president the previous decade. By contrast, he made a strong case for an energetic, vigorous presidency, equipped with Hamiltonian broad executive power, coupled with the Jeffersonian-Jacksonian ideal of popular, democratic legitimacy. Roosevelt explained that, as the steward of social and economic reform, the president had to become even more powerful than when he had occupied the office.
Additionally, Roosevelt and the Progressives emphatically advocated for judicial reforms providing popular control over the judiciary as a means of countering the pro-business, conservative stranglehold of the courts. They proposed the popular override of judicial decisions, namely permitting voters a referendum to overturn court decisions, fundamentally altering the political and constitutional order. These were not insignificant aspects of Roosevelt or the Progressives. In fact, these two aspects (taken together) were the primary, singular reason why Taft and many conservative ardently opposed TR -- because they worried about his attack on the courts and the potential for an imperial presidency. Even if the judicial reforms were unsuccessful in getting passed under a second (or third) TR term, wouldnt they have nonetheless spurred important debate over the issue? Or refocused the discourse toward these types of reforms?
Date: 2022-07-15
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Comments and reviews: 9
Nathan
Teddy Roosevelt is easily the most overrated president in US history. His reputation for trust busting is a myth as is the claim he turned the US into a mighty naval power. Trust busting was a process that took a generation and Roosevelt routinely passed the buck on that issue - and the US was already a vast naval power. A fleet of obsolete ships with white paint on them is not naval dominance and the US already owned Hawaii and the Philippines, which you kinda need a big navy to accomplish. Roosevelt would have certainly been very keen to enter into WWII early but the US public not so much, just like in reality. The US would have needed a lot of time to get ready for such a massive expeditionary force to get ready, just like they did in reality (and assuming the notoriously isolationist Republican base allowed it) and assuming the Central Powers would simply quit because the mighty Americans were coming ignores what they actually did - which was fight an utterly pointless and suicidal war of attrition until they collapsed internally. The US sending completely green troops a year into the war after millions had already died would hardly have made Europe a land of reason and peace, or buried all 5e bad blood or prevented already collapsing empires from collapsing. Finally, the Woodrow Wilson hate is as out of proportion as the Roosevelt love fest. Wilson had a lot of faults but he left a far more massive impact on America than Roosevelt did and set the stage for the United States to be THE dominant power of the 20th century. The US was after all the only winner in WWII and entered at the perfect time all things considered. Claims he was both a bigot and an unreasonable proponent of national self determination is contradictory and ignores the chain events as they occurred. All US politics in that period was hopelessly racist - which is why the NAACP actually endorsed Wilson in 1912 as the Republicans sucked on race issues as bad as Wilson did - and national self determination was a consequence of 4 years of brutal warfare and disintegrating, decrepit empires, not Wilsons love for each language group in Europe getting their own country.
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Teddy Roosevelt is easily the most overrated president in US history. His reputation for trust busting is a myth as is the claim he turned the US into a mighty naval power. Trust busting was a process that took a generation and Roosevelt routinely passed the buck on that issue - and the US was already a vast naval power. A fleet of obsolete ships with white paint on them is not naval dominance and the US already owned Hawaii and the Philippines, which you kinda need a big navy to accomplish. Roosevelt would have certainly been very keen to enter into WWII early but the US public not so much, just like in reality. The US would have needed a lot of time to get ready for such a massive expeditionary force to get ready, just like they did in reality (and assuming the notoriously isolationist Republican base allowed it) and assuming the Central Powers would simply quit because the mighty Americans were coming ignores what they actually did - which was fight an utterly pointless and suicidal war of attrition until they collapsed internally. The US sending completely green troops a year into the war after millions had already died would hardly have made Europe a land of reason and peace, or buried all 5e bad blood or prevented already collapsing empires from collapsing. Finally, the Woodrow Wilson hate is as out of proportion as the Roosevelt love fest. Wilson had a lot of faults but he left a far more massive impact on America than Roosevelt did and set the stage for the United States to be THE dominant power of the 20th century. The US was after all the only winner in WWII and entered at the perfect time all things considered. Claims he was both a bigot and an unreasonable proponent of national self determination is contradictory and ignores the chain events as they occurred. All US politics in that period was hopelessly racist - which is why the NAACP actually endorsed Wilson in 1912 as the Republicans sucked on race issues as bad as Wilson did - and national self determination was a consequence of 4 years of brutal warfare and disintegrating, decrepit empires, not Wilsons love for each language group in Europe getting their own country.
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The
It wouldve been bad. The US wouldve entered WWI earlier and when there was no necessity. Wilson kept the US neutral (well, he still sent some aid to the Allies but thats about it) until Germany started attacking US ships and the Zimmerman telegram. Despite what many think, I actually quite like Wilsons leadership during the war. And in the post-war negotiations Wilson was far less harsh than the European powers. The League of Nations was a predecessor to the UN, so he should get at least some points for it. He also signed the Clayton Antitrust act, lowered Tariffs and started the process of banning child labor. Im not saying Wilson is a great president, there are definitely reasons to hate him, whether it be his insane racism, handling of the Spanish Flu, crushing of Civil Liberties or Banana Wars, Im just saying that hes not as bad as many claim he is. Especially when you look at how similar he is with Teddy (Ill explain if someone asks.
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It wouldve been bad. The US wouldve entered WWI earlier and when there was no necessity. Wilson kept the US neutral (well, he still sent some aid to the Allies but thats about it) until Germany started attacking US ships and the Zimmerman telegram. Despite what many think, I actually quite like Wilsons leadership during the war. And in the post-war negotiations Wilson was far less harsh than the European powers. The League of Nations was a predecessor to the UN, so he should get at least some points for it. He also signed the Clayton Antitrust act, lowered Tariffs and started the process of banning child labor. Im not saying Wilson is a great president, there are definitely reasons to hate him, whether it be his insane racism, handling of the Spanish Flu, crushing of Civil Liberties or Banana Wars, Im just saying that hes not as bad as many claim he is. Especially when you look at how similar he is with Teddy (Ill explain if someone asks.
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BudokaiMan
I don't think japan would go to war with America, mainly because in our timeline they thought America became docile and easy to bully but here with America having a massive navy that's very active, they wouldn't try anything nor would they try to conquer everything in Asia. Especially going to war with China.
Personally I think Japan like they did after ww2 in our timeline would grow their economy and grow their treasury and would probably buy off some colonies like buying the Philippines from America, and buying parts of Indonesia from the Dutch, and over the decades from 1920 to 1990 or 2000 would move millions of Japanese onto these islands and create new Japans in them. I mean the Philippines like you said in another video it's not like they are apart of America's self interest and I'm sure America wouldn't mind selling them to Japan. The Dutch would be harder to convince.
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I don't think japan would go to war with America, mainly because in our timeline they thought America became docile and easy to bully but here with America having a massive navy that's very active, they wouldn't try anything nor would they try to conquer everything in Asia. Especially going to war with China.
Personally I think Japan like they did after ww2 in our timeline would grow their economy and grow their treasury and would probably buy off some colonies like buying the Philippines from America, and buying parts of Indonesia from the Dutch, and over the decades from 1920 to 1990 or 2000 would move millions of Japanese onto these islands and create new Japans in them. I mean the Philippines like you said in another video it's not like they are apart of America's self interest and I'm sure America wouldn't mind selling them to Japan. The Dutch would be harder to convince.
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King
Calling Teddy Roosevelt possibly the greatest American is ridiculous. Were you trying to open with a joke? Roosevelt's third party run elected Wilson. Had he not run, Taft would have won. Roosevelt split the Republican vote. You can rightfully say that Roosevelt gave us Wilson and all the misery that came with him.
Roosevelt was the first president to run with the idea that the president wasn't inhibited by the Constitution and that he could do anything he wanted if he could say that it was for the greater good.
Roosevelt and Wilson both used the same type of gunboat diplomacy, so their actions in Latin America wouldn't have differed all that much.
The Treaty of Versailles was completely written and brought back to the United States by Wilson. It was already punitive. This is historical fact!
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Calling Teddy Roosevelt possibly the greatest American is ridiculous. Were you trying to open with a joke? Roosevelt's third party run elected Wilson. Had he not run, Taft would have won. Roosevelt split the Republican vote. You can rightfully say that Roosevelt gave us Wilson and all the misery that came with him.
Roosevelt was the first president to run with the idea that the president wasn't inhibited by the Constitution and that he could do anything he wanted if he could say that it was for the greater good.
Roosevelt and Wilson both used the same type of gunboat diplomacy, so their actions in Latin America wouldn't have differed all that much.
The Treaty of Versailles was completely written and brought back to the United States by Wilson. It was already punitive. This is historical fact!
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TahoeHigh
I'm not saying I have any objections or disagree with the video BUT with all the tenacity and carrying of a big stick bravado attributed to Teddy Roosevelt (deservedly, it kinda makes us underestimate the statesmanship of Teddy Roosevelt. I don't know of any major military conflicts TR lead the United States into as president but TR wouldn't have had any reservations or hesitation of using force. I never realized or appreciated how dramatically different the course of history could have been with the 1912 U. S Presidential Election.
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I'm not saying I have any objections or disagree with the video BUT with all the tenacity and carrying of a big stick bravado attributed to Teddy Roosevelt (deservedly, it kinda makes us underestimate the statesmanship of Teddy Roosevelt. I don't know of any major military conflicts TR lead the United States into as president but TR wouldn't have had any reservations or hesitation of using force. I never realized or appreciated how dramatically different the course of history could have been with the 1912 U. S Presidential Election.
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valar
I think the colonial powers would have divested themselves of their empires anyway. Empires are expensive, and public opinion would have shifted towards imperialism being amoral, as it has today. But the colonial powers would have left more slowly, therefore resulting in them leaving functioning democratic institutions, rational boundaries and far less bloodshed behind. Partition would perhaps have not have happened at all or if it had, not nearly as fast and without a million Indians dying in the process.
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I think the colonial powers would have divested themselves of their empires anyway. Empires are expensive, and public opinion would have shifted towards imperialism being amoral, as it has today. But the colonial powers would have left more slowly, therefore resulting in them leaving functioning democratic institutions, rational boundaries and far less bloodshed behind. Partition would perhaps have not have happened at all or if it had, not nearly as fast and without a million Indians dying in the process.
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SolDeSaBelle
7: 46
That is true or it used to be, riiight up until 2020.
Permanent, unending, pointless wars that were started by your predecessor's predecessor are very much still wars all the same. Actually, even _more_ so, one could argue.
Another _#1 Trophy_ to add onto Trump's _Shelf of Shameful Records_ along with _Poorest Billionaire, _ _Most Successfully Recidivist Con-Man_ and _Owner of the Best Brain (Still in Blister. _
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7: 46
That is true or it used to be, riiight up until 2020.
Permanent, unending, pointless wars that were started by your predecessor's predecessor are very much still wars all the same. Actually, even _more_ so, one could argue.
Another _#1 Trophy_ to add onto Trump's _Shelf of Shameful Records_ along with _Poorest Billionaire, _ _Most Successfully Recidivist Con-Man_ and _Owner of the Best Brain (Still in Blister. _
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Lucas
You forgot that Woodrow helped found the federal reserve, which is a privately owned central bank that loans money to the US government and that tax payers must pay back in the form of interest. Central banking results in enormous deficit spending causing a ripple effect of many new taxes on the people. George Washington's America was a revolt against British taxes in first place.
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You forgot that Woodrow helped found the federal reserve, which is a privately owned central bank that loans money to the US government and that tax payers must pay back in the form of interest. Central banking results in enormous deficit spending causing a ripple effect of many new taxes on the people. George Washington's America was a revolt against British taxes in first place.
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ngc
Bernie in a lot of ways is this generations Roosevelt. And he was also thwarted by his own political party in order to run somebody universally unpopular if not outright hated, and who would subsequently would go on to lose the election to a candidate who under no other circumstances had a chance of winning and, who by every metric, was bad for America.
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Bernie in a lot of ways is this generations Roosevelt. And he was also thwarted by his own political party in order to run somebody universally unpopular if not outright hated, and who would subsequently would go on to lose the election to a candidate who under no other circumstances had a chance of winning and, who by every metric, was bad for America.
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