The B-17: The Ally's Most Potent Anti-U-Boat Machine? The Wolfpack and Flying Fortress Timeline
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Date: 2022-07-19
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Comments and reviews: 20
Peter
Something similar to the PT-boat was the ideal defence against WW2 subs. If these could be carried and deployed from convoy vessels (recovered for heavy sea states, with multiple 'watches' i. e, additional crews, a 24 hour, 360 patrol perimeter would have made life very difficult for the U-boats. Armament need be no more than a. 50 cal (with AP slugs) and possibly a few depth charges leads a designer towards smaller, faster, less complicated boats. BTW heavy sea states prevents U-boat activity too. This battle, tactically, was an inverted jungle that needed constant patrols of adequate ambush capacity to catch the signs of enemy presence from many directions.
What we can be sure of is that such an idea is not radical, someone would have suggested it, however the navies of both nations were unable to extract it. That is the fundamental question - why?
Specs: 10m (34') long, similar hull to PTs, single diesel engine, 20 knots max, cruise 12, Crew 5; pilot, navigator, radio, 2 on watch (all multi-skilled to rotate tasks) for 8 or 12 hour patrols. Kitchen for tea (of course. Fore and aft gun/observer positions. Various patrol patterns (have fun working those out.
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Something similar to the PT-boat was the ideal defence against WW2 subs. If these could be carried and deployed from convoy vessels (recovered for heavy sea states, with multiple 'watches' i. e, additional crews, a 24 hour, 360 patrol perimeter would have made life very difficult for the U-boats. Armament need be no more than a. 50 cal (with AP slugs) and possibly a few depth charges leads a designer towards smaller, faster, less complicated boats. BTW heavy sea states prevents U-boat activity too. This battle, tactically, was an inverted jungle that needed constant patrols of adequate ambush capacity to catch the signs of enemy presence from many directions.
What we can be sure of is that such an idea is not radical, someone would have suggested it, however the navies of both nations were unable to extract it. That is the fundamental question - why?
Specs: 10m (34') long, similar hull to PTs, single diesel engine, 20 knots max, cruise 12, Crew 5; pilot, navigator, radio, 2 on watch (all multi-skilled to rotate tasks) for 8 or 12 hour patrols. Kitchen for tea (of course. Fore and aft gun/observer positions. Various patrol patterns (have fun working those out.
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JacobsParry
Never land anywhere? What does he call landing of those spies?
The damage we suffered along our own East coast was due to the head of the navy command being a British hater. The British tried to get us to use the convoy system because you lose less shipping. They had been doing convoys already and they had the experience already. But our navy leader would not do it and only because he would not accept anything the British suggested. If they said right, he would go left and he cost us a lot of lives and a lot of tonnage. The US kept insisting on just letting the merchantman ships travel in drips and drivels and ALONE. I do not remember his name but he was a fool and should have been held accountable for his arrogance. He was actually a hypocrite in being guilty of what the British were often guilty of: Class Arrogance.
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Never land anywhere? What does he call landing of those spies?
The damage we suffered along our own East coast was due to the head of the navy command being a British hater. The British tried to get us to use the convoy system because you lose less shipping. They had been doing convoys already and they had the experience already. But our navy leader would not do it and only because he would not accept anything the British suggested. If they said right, he would go left and he cost us a lot of lives and a lot of tonnage. The US kept insisting on just letting the merchantman ships travel in drips and drivels and ALONE. I do not remember his name but he was a fool and should have been held accountable for his arrogance. He was actually a hypocrite in being guilty of what the British were often guilty of: Class Arrogance.
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Carrick
Sunderlands, Lancasters, PBY, B24 and B17 were the long range heroes. We should not forget that very many RAF medium range bombers were taken off German Targets (as too light and vulnerable there) and put into home (and french) area ASW patrols. The carrier aircraft were also important to cover the mid-Atlantic 'gap'. And ASW doctrime was refined with work from such as the 'Western Approaches Tactical Unit' and Captain Walker's hunter groups. Radar, Ultra, RDF, night flying, and other tech all made submarines more marginal. You have to respect Herbert Warner (Iron Coffins) and the crew of both sides.
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Sunderlands, Lancasters, PBY, B24 and B17 were the long range heroes. We should not forget that very many RAF medium range bombers were taken off German Targets (as too light and vulnerable there) and put into home (and french) area ASW patrols. The carrier aircraft were also important to cover the mid-Atlantic 'gap'. And ASW doctrime was refined with work from such as the 'Western Approaches Tactical Unit' and Captain Walker's hunter groups. Radar, Ultra, RDF, night flying, and other tech all made submarines more marginal. You have to respect Herbert Warner (Iron Coffins) and the crew of both sides.
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Mark
That American boasts about how many ships are sunk at the beginning of the War but a lot of that was down to Lloyds insurance having to report when a ship could sail then the Americans telling everyone that could hear them when and where so all the U boat had to do was wait in its shipping lane. Though later on when America had decided what side to join one U boat that had already torpedo a tanker had to get between it an the beach because all the people on the beach thought is was a display for them and wouldnt move so they moved to shell the tanker not wanting to hit the crowd of on lookers
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That American boasts about how many ships are sunk at the beginning of the War but a lot of that was down to Lloyds insurance having to report when a ship could sail then the Americans telling everyone that could hear them when and where so all the U boat had to do was wait in its shipping lane. Though later on when America had decided what side to join one U boat that had already torpedo a tanker had to get between it an the beach because all the people on the beach thought is was a display for them and wouldnt move so they moved to shell the tanker not wanting to hit the crowd of on lookers
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Bruce
The Allies had fighters with enough long range fighting and flying ability to defence and escort the vulnerable Bombers from the beginning of the war- namely the P38, which was used to a limited extent from December 7th 1941 onward. But the idiotic U. S. high command insisted- though they had never themselves flown a bombing mission, that Bombers didn't need fighter escorts and so doomed thousands of flyers to death.
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Bruce Peek
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The Allies had fighters with enough long range fighting and flying ability to defence and escort the vulnerable Bombers from the beginning of the war- namely the P38, which was used to a limited extent from December 7th 1941 onward. But the idiotic U. S. high command insisted- though they had never themselves flown a bombing mission, that Bombers didn't need fighter escorts and so doomed thousands of flyers to death.
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Bruce Peek
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Barrett
The main reason for the large number of sinking on the East coast of the USA can be directly attributed to Admiral KING who refused the assistance of the RN, thus causing the death and shocking injuries from oil burns to the US Merchant Marines. When he was eventually forced to accept their help the sinkings of the oil tankers were drastically reduced. He should have been sacked
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The main reason for the large number of sinking on the East coast of the USA can be directly attributed to Admiral KING who refused the assistance of the RN, thus causing the death and shocking injuries from oil burns to the US Merchant Marines. When he was eventually forced to accept their help the sinkings of the oil tankers were drastically reduced. He should have been sacked
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Robert
My dad was stationed at Waycross Georgia
U. S. A. A. C.. HE Told ME that on Christmas day 1944 there was a report of a German submarine off the coast of Georgia, but it being a Holiday the sub was not found because of a delay in launching a defensive Air Patrol
Due to lack of pilots and ground crews on duty. late war laxity on the part of
Of Air Corp.
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My dad was stationed at Waycross Georgia
U. S. A. A. C.. HE Told ME that on Christmas day 1944 there was a report of a German submarine off the coast of Georgia, but it being a Holiday the sub was not found because of a delay in launching a defensive Air Patrol
Due to lack of pilots and ground crews on duty. late war laxity on the part of
Of Air Corp.
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John
Listen to the Coastguard officer. We were Not prepared. How man times have we heard this? I would suggest that preparing for the next big War would be good money spent. It is always the same story. In the old days we would have time before the advance of technology. No longer. We must be ready for an assault from the bad guys. When will we learn?
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Listen to the Coastguard officer. We were Not prepared. How man times have we heard this? I would suggest that preparing for the next big War would be good money spent. It is always the same story. In the old days we would have time before the advance of technology. No longer. We must be ready for an assault from the bad guys. When will we learn?
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Brian
I knew Germans who were in Germany when the bombings were underway. They always knew in advance if the bombers were US or Allies. If they were US the just hunkered down because they never knew where the bombs would land. If it were the Allies, they simply evacuated the area near the target as then knew that is what would be hit.
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I knew Germans who were in Germany when the bombings were underway. They always knew in advance if the bombers were US or Allies. If they were US the just hunkered down because they never knew where the bombs would land. If it were the Allies, they simply evacuated the area near the target as then knew that is what would be hit.
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Chloe
My great grandpa took out two U-Boats.
They dropped a set of 4 depth charges and a few minutes later a large slick and body parts came to the surface in both instances he said.
He said when it was over he was glad he didnt have to fly his beloved into harms way anymore.
He loved that airplane.
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My great grandpa took out two U-Boats.
They dropped a set of 4 depth charges and a few minutes later a large slick and body parts came to the surface in both instances he said.
He said when it was over he was glad he didnt have to fly his beloved into harms way anymore.
He loved that airplane.
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Roger
Every documentary on the Battle of the Atlantic I have seen assumes the audience is a shipping tonnage expert and can of course easily visualise what a million tons of sunk ships looks like and its implications. They never say X hundred ships this size or other aid to understanding the quantities sunk.
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Every documentary on the Battle of the Atlantic I have seen assumes the audience is a shipping tonnage expert and can of course easily visualise what a million tons of sunk ships looks like and its implications. They never say X hundred ships this size or other aid to understanding the quantities sunk.
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Karl
The US was so unprepared when war started the USAAF formed an auxiliary called the Civil Air Patrol, essentially uniformed civilians flying small, bright yellow-painted private planes over the Atlantic to spot U-boats. The organization still exists today, doing search-and-rescue work.
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The US was so unprepared when war started the USAAF formed an auxiliary called the Civil Air Patrol, essentially uniformed civilians flying small, bright yellow-painted private planes over the Atlantic to spot U-boats. The organization still exists today, doing search-and-rescue work.
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Bob
The Timeline series on WW2, with golden-voiced narrator Edwin Mulhare and music by talented film composer Chris Young, is well above the others in depth and quality. Young's music for battle sequences, featuring a piano and studio orchestra, is some of the most dramatic.
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The Timeline series on WW2, with golden-voiced narrator Edwin Mulhare and music by talented film composer Chris Young, is well above the others in depth and quality. Young's music for battle sequences, featuring a piano and studio orchestra, is some of the most dramatic.
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Cosmic
The subs on the east coast success can be attributed to one man, not Adolf, not Durnitz, but an American Naval Admiral, Admiral King. He didnt listen to anyone. He hated the British. He knew better than the British. Shows what damage an un-checked ego can do.
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The subs on the east coast success can be attributed to one man, not Adolf, not Durnitz, but an American Naval Admiral, Admiral King. He didnt listen to anyone. He hated the British. He knew better than the British. Shows what damage an un-checked ego can do.
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Slartybarfast
Even modern day suicide bombers likely have no more than 93% fatality rate. Many either surrender with vest undetonated or the vest malfunctioned.
The U boat crews were devastating but at the cost of near certain death.
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Even modern day suicide bombers likely have no more than 93% fatality rate. Many either surrender with vest undetonated or the vest malfunctioned.
The U boat crews were devastating but at the cost of near certain death.
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Paul
Since the British decoded the German Enigma code machine already in 1941 for all German military branches, (including the SS) locating the German U-boats was easy for the British bombers. Just tell the full truth.
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Since the British decoded the German Enigma code machine already in 1941 for all German military branches, (including the SS) locating the German U-boats was easy for the British bombers. Just tell the full truth.
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Benjamin
Great collection and arrangement of War Films coupled with wonderful narration by Sir Anthony Hopkins make these two parts well worth the watch. Well Done. Thank you. Watch & Enjoy. This is a Good One to see.
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Great collection and arrangement of War Films coupled with wonderful narration by Sir Anthony Hopkins make these two parts well worth the watch. Well Done. Thank you. Watch & Enjoy. This is a Good One to see.
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Peaceman67
Ive never seen a map showing that many vessels being sunk along the Atlantic and Gulf Coast. Black May is a good read about the Coastal Command, and ASDC sonar that put a stop to it by 43'.
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Ive never seen a map showing that many vessels being sunk along the Atlantic and Gulf Coast. Black May is a good read about the Coastal Command, and ASDC sonar that put a stop to it by 43'.
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Nancy
A lot of great racehorses were named after WWll battle terms, Ack Ack, Depth Charge, Top Deck, Jet Deck, etc. Eternally grateful to our brave men and women who served to protect our freedoms.
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A lot of great racehorses were named after WWll battle terms, Ack Ack, Depth Charge, Top Deck, Jet Deck, etc. Eternally grateful to our brave men and women who served to protect our freedoms.
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Daniella
The Norden bomb site was not accurate as the USAAF say it was, and when they USAAF bomb they call Saturation bombing when the RAF bomb they call area bombing i don't see much difference
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The Norden bomb site was not accurate as the USAAF say it was, and when they USAAF bomb they call Saturation bombing when the RAF bomb they call area bombing i don't see much difference
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