Determinism vs Free Will: Crash Course Philosophy #24
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Date: 2022-04-04
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Comments and reviews: 10
Anna
My philosophical argument:
1) Everything in the universe is governed by physical laws
2) Physical laws can be expressed as a mathematical formula.
3) We - our brains, our bodies, everything - are part of the universe.
Conclusion: There is a mathematical formula that can express everything in the universe.
So, there is a formula that can describe how every neuron in every person's brain will fire and how everything around them in the physical world will move and create input, etc. This formula is far too complicated to ever calculate, but it exists. Ergo, there is a formula that describes the future, and therefore the future is predetermined, and therefore we don't have free will.
It's a very uncomfortable conclusion, but I see no way out of it - we don't have free will.
reply
My philosophical argument:
1) Everything in the universe is governed by physical laws
2) Physical laws can be expressed as a mathematical formula.
3) We - our brains, our bodies, everything - are part of the universe.
Conclusion: There is a mathematical formula that can express everything in the universe.
So, there is a formula that can describe how every neuron in every person's brain will fire and how everything around them in the physical world will move and create input, etc. This formula is far too complicated to ever calculate, but it exists. Ergo, there is a formula that describes the future, and therefore the future is predetermined, and therefore we don't have free will.
It's a very uncomfortable conclusion, but I see no way out of it - we don't have free will.
reply
Tushar
I do believe in reductionist dualism, everything can be explained in terms of the interactions of the constituent particles of a system. So, according to that, determinism seems more correct. But as one goes deeper into more fundamental levels, we can't ignore Heisenberg's uncertainty principle from Quantum Mechanics. So, everything, including the physical universe is not really -deterministic-. Probability lies beneath it all. So, even though we reject the possibility of a separate entity called mind that can make free decisions, we are still left with a indeterminate, and possibly random world.
(This is just what I think, and I may as well be wrong. I would very much like to be corrected by others in the comments)
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I do believe in reductionist dualism, everything can be explained in terms of the interactions of the constituent particles of a system. So, according to that, determinism seems more correct. But as one goes deeper into more fundamental levels, we can't ignore Heisenberg's uncertainty principle from Quantum Mechanics. So, everything, including the physical universe is not really -deterministic-. Probability lies beneath it all. So, even though we reject the possibility of a separate entity called mind that can make free decisions, we are still left with a indeterminate, and possibly random world.
(This is just what I think, and I may as well be wrong. I would very much like to be corrected by others in the comments)
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Frank
Ok I'll be quick. if the universe itself is STILL expanding due to the FACT that it is STILL reacting to ANOTHER predetermined -action- ( big bang) which would in FACT prove that it is STILL BOUND by certain law's and principles that it MUST ALWAYS adhere to and maintain in order to exist within THIS reality. then HOW can anything that exists within it claim to be FREE of or from it. exactly. we are ALL bound by -fate- ( our predetermined outcomes) and NOTHING happens by -chance-. for everything is STILL reacting to ANOTHER predetermined -action- and WILL be until the next -big bang- which itself WILL be ANOTHER reaction to ANOTHER predetermined event. TRUTH
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Ok I'll be quick. if the universe itself is STILL expanding due to the FACT that it is STILL reacting to ANOTHER predetermined -action- ( big bang) which would in FACT prove that it is STILL BOUND by certain law's and principles that it MUST ALWAYS adhere to and maintain in order to exist within THIS reality. then HOW can anything that exists within it claim to be FREE of or from it. exactly. we are ALL bound by -fate- ( our predetermined outcomes) and NOTHING happens by -chance-. for everything is STILL reacting to ANOTHER predetermined -action- and WILL be until the next -big bang- which itself WILL be ANOTHER reaction to ANOTHER predetermined event. TRUTH
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Introverted
No matter if we have free will or not, we shouldn't worry about it. We humans don't know the answers to everything, intelligence is a part of us, it wants to know more and more, but we'll never reach that deep truth that has always been right in front of us. If we don't have free will, it shouldn't matter, cause we always been us and will always be the same. A lot of us worry about death, it's okay to be afraid, cause we don't know if we're going somewhere or not, but in the end it shouldn't matter, cause we just gotta figure it out ourselves and wait for the moment to happen. Just live life to the fullest and stay curious.
Peace and love!
reply
No matter if we have free will or not, we shouldn't worry about it. We humans don't know the answers to everything, intelligence is a part of us, it wants to know more and more, but we'll never reach that deep truth that has always been right in front of us. If we don't have free will, it shouldn't matter, cause we always been us and will always be the same. A lot of us worry about death, it's okay to be afraid, cause we don't know if we're going somewhere or not, but in the end it shouldn't matter, cause we just gotta figure it out ourselves and wait for the moment to happen. Just live life to the fullest and stay curious.
Peace and love!
reply
David
I've always thought (throughout my adult life anyway) that free will and determinism are not mutually exclusive or contradictory. To prove my free will, I make a decision. I observe that I made that decision. Done, I proved free will. Simultaneously, I understand that I am an object made of countless particles whose paths are (mostly) deterministic. The dilemma dissolves when I reiterate that I AM those particles, so the decision was still made by me. The problem only arises when you refuse to think of yourself as a purely physical being.
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I've always thought (throughout my adult life anyway) that free will and determinism are not mutually exclusive or contradictory. To prove my free will, I make a decision. I observe that I made that decision. Done, I proved free will. Simultaneously, I understand that I am an object made of countless particles whose paths are (mostly) deterministic. The dilemma dissolves when I reiterate that I AM those particles, so the decision was still made by me. The problem only arises when you refuse to think of yourself as a purely physical being.
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Shaun
Just because there is always a reason we can point to in relation to some event, thought or action of a person doesn-t mean free will want involved. It simply means a decision was made by a free agent who chose from a myriad of possible options. Often this choice is based on a desire to please ourself, please others or please God. We exercise our free will when we choose who we will please. This is how love is expressed and why love is real. Philosophy is a mental disease which seeks to erode the expression of love through deception.
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Just because there is always a reason we can point to in relation to some event, thought or action of a person doesn-t mean free will want involved. It simply means a decision was made by a free agent who chose from a myriad of possible options. Often this choice is based on a desire to please ourself, please others or please God. We exercise our free will when we choose who we will please. This is how love is expressed and why love is real. Philosophy is a mental disease which seeks to erode the expression of love through deception.
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Detrick
We have freewill. freewill is choosing the decision that best suits my desires. Freedom comes from the removal of ignorance replaced with wisdom. Most just are not aware of this freewill, so they're governed by cause & effect. Their actions being the effect. Freewill is not falling into the temptation to drift. So Freedom is a choice, it's just impossible to acquire when leaning on outside influence. Once we are free, we become the cause of the effect, instead of the effect from the cause.
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We have freewill. freewill is choosing the decision that best suits my desires. Freedom comes from the removal of ignorance replaced with wisdom. Most just are not aware of this freewill, so they're governed by cause & effect. Their actions being the effect. Freewill is not falling into the temptation to drift. So Freedom is a choice, it's just impossible to acquire when leaning on outside influence. Once we are free, we become the cause of the effect, instead of the effect from the cause.
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Triton
Determinism makes a lot of sense, but the illusion of free will is what keeps determinism alive. If everyone realizes that they have no real choice and all event are predetermined, why do anything at all, since actions don-t change anything and you-re still gonna go down the same path? There would be no point in life anymore if determinism was true.
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Determinism makes a lot of sense, but the illusion of free will is what keeps determinism alive. If everyone realizes that they have no real choice and all event are predetermined, why do anything at all, since actions don-t change anything and you-re still gonna go down the same path? There would be no point in life anymore if determinism was true.
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Muhammad
Creator and creatures are different things, the universe is a creature, space and time is also a creature, so Creator exist beyond time, That's why Creator Know the future of his creation, That's was a fate is. The future that known and determined is a different things. So i think human has a free will because we literally don't know our future.
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Creator and creatures are different things, the universe is a creature, space and time is also a creature, so Creator exist beyond time, That's why Creator Know the future of his creation, That's was a fate is. The future that known and determined is a different things. So i think human has a free will because we literally don't know our future.
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Mishi
Philosophy feels awfully empty without physics coming in the topic. This is something discussed by physicians all around the world constantly. Not using their researches to prove either of these points is like discussing on how world wars happened because people were killing one another and then proceed to ignore all the important detail
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Philosophy feels awfully empty without physics coming in the topic. This is something discussed by physicians all around the world constantly. Not using their researches to prove either of these points is like discussing on how world wars happened because people were killing one another and then proceed to ignore all the important detail
reply
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